Plan9 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 You will see the ensemble music caption listed along with all the other captions, if you look at the recap. I guess I meant Caption Awards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Before you publish your rewritten history.... '08 PR made numerous changes to their drill, auxiliary show and storyline in mid-late July that tipped the crowd-favorite scales in their favor. The folks I can vouch for, either from individual communication or just observing crowd response, were sold on this show back when PR was still grappling with Crown for 3rd/4th. Cavaliers were the closest challenger to BD through all of tour and at quarterfinals, not to be caught by PR until semis....so if the crowd sentiment was simply "anyone but BD", Cavaliers would have been their favorite up until finals night. This is closer to my memory of 08. Phantom improved the show into August, and the crowd responded. Doesn't mean this show isn't over-hyped; it is. Just means some of that hype was the result of Phantom's refinements entering finals week. Similarly, my view is the anyone-but-BD theory might also be over-hyped a bit in regard to 2008. While ABBD surely was on the minds of many, the more important intangible was to crown a new champion as in anyone but BD, Cavies or Cadets (ABBDCorC). Phantom was a convenience. BD was a symbol of three corps's dominance. This sentiment had several layers. One was the obvious. ABBDCorC owned every championship (or a share thereof) since 1991. Another was a strong base of support in general for Phantom and a desire to see it have an unshared title. A third derives from the tension between the more traditional and the more experimental in drum corps today. Cadets very nearly took the title on BD turf the year before with a "talkie" show. In 08, BD was literally walking the new-age tightrope while Phantom reached back almost two decades for inspiration. Never mind that Phantom's show wasn't properly traditional; it felt traditional in its story of oppression and rebellion, murder and revenge. For all these reasons many in the crowd were eager to have Phantom win and just as eager to overlook its blemishes. In other words, they hyped it. Over-hyped, I think. My picks for overhype: Madison 2010 Phantom 2008 The truth is these two corps tend to be over-hyped more than the rest. This thread seems to confirm as much. I think that reflects some of what I said above and the desire of many fans to shift the balance of power on many levels. HH 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I think it could be said that there was a definative moment last year (somewhere toward the end) when the mantle of ABBD shifted from Bloo to the Cavies. There appeared to be a sense that Cavies was positioned best to do it, so the crowd then appeared to drive the uber-love from Bloo to the Cavies. Just my view. But if you don't think ABBD exists (and in some cases hyper-ABBD), your not paying attention. I can see where you're coming from. I can only say that I always support the Cavies, even when I do not enjoy their show the best out of the field. I believe there was a shift when Cavies started beating Crown, Cadets, and trading wins with Bluecoats. People were rooting for Cavies to surge and take it all in the end. That would have been a picture perfect finish for them. That being said, there was still a huge push for Coats to take out both BD and Cavies. Earlier in the year it was Crown... They nearly did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 But if you don't think ABBD exists (and in some cases hyper-ABBD), your not paying attention. Plan9, I appreciate your passion for the Blue Devils on the boards - I think it's great to have such supporters posting on here, and I've always enjoyed reading your posts, even when I don't agree. That said, based on my experience with drum corps, the events and the fans, I think you vastly overstate the "ABBD" sentiment out there. Overall, last year's show was not as warmly received as previous productions, to be sure, but it seems to be aimed at the show more than the corps. Of course, the great test will be this summer as the BB show appears (based on hearing the corps) to be aimed at a much more "mainstream" audience. We shall see how it goes for them... Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cache_Money Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 That, and any show that goes out of its way to be "deep" or "dark". To me that's as fluffy as you can get. I can't think of a clumsier medium for expressing intellectual depth, yet some designers insist that that's what they're doing. But at least their shows usually end up being enjoyable on a superficial level. Thank you! Great point, wonderfully stated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 The last two paragraphs are your opinion, and I can understand where you're coming from there. The rest of your post is nonsense. Phantom Regiment 08 is so immensely popular because of the emotional connection the corps made with the audience. This connection was most intense towards the end of the season, but they received intense reactions for most of the summer. Despite its technical weaknesses it was a stunningly effective show, which is why fans (and maybe judges) have elevated to such an exaggerated height. With a few exceptions the tiresome ABBD bogeyman had little to do with it. Few people who knew anything about DCI really expected Phantom to win on finals night. They cheered the show because they liked it. Hard to believe, but true. And then awards came and it was revealed that the audience favorite had done the impossible and knocked the 1st place corps from semis. Would have been the same reaction no matter who had been in that 1st place spot the night before, be it BD, Cavies, Cadets, etc. I can't add more - that pretty much sums up my feelings on this as well. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesiscorps Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 what possible pleasure could anybody get out of briniging this thread back? it's beyond my poor little brain. Though I totally get what you're saying, I admit that I'm pretty impressed with how some people have expressed their opinions in a respectful manner. Obviously, the usual suspects have done their work as well, but I missed this thread the first time around, and I've found it highly entertaining, and generally within the boundary of acceptable commentary as it relates to an opinion-based thread. My show picks (admittedly not THE most overrate shows of the decade, but imo still overrated): Blue Stars 08, 09 I did enjoy Blue Stars 2010, which I consider to be surprisingly under-hyped. With the exception of 2010, I haven't really enjoyed a Blue Stars product since their Div. II-III days (and I LOVED their shows back then). There's just something about their World Class show designs that leave me uninspired... sorry. As was mentioned about the Wyoming corps, the Rockford corps, and the all-male Wisconsin corps, maybe overrating a particular show is more accurately attributed to the tendency to hype a corps that is ascending and/or on the rebound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 This is closer to my memory of 08. Phantom improved the show into August, and the crowd responded. Doesn't mean this show isn't over-hyped; it is. Just means some of that hype was the result of Phantom's refinements entering finals week. Similarly, my view is the anyone-but-BD theory might also be over-hyped a bit in regard to 2008. While ABBD surely was on the minds of many, the more important intangible was to crown a new champion as in anyone but BD, Cavies or Cadets (ABBDCorC). Phantom was a convenience. BD was a symbol of three corps's dominance. This sentiment had several layers. One was the obvious. ABBDCorC owned every championship (or a share thereof) since 1991. Another was a strong base of support in general for Phantom and a desire to see it have an unshared title. A third derives from the tension between the more traditional and the more experimental in drum corps today. Cadets very nearly took the title on BD turf the year before with a "talkie" show. In 08, BD was literally walking the new-age tightrope while Phantom reached back almost two decades for inspiration. Never mind that Phantom's show wasn't properly traditional; it felt traditional in its story of oppression and rebellion, murder and revenge. For all these reasons many in the crowd were eager to have Phantom win and just as eager to overlook its blemishes. In other words, they hyped it. Over-hyped, I think. My picks for overhype: Madison 2010 Phantom 2008 The truth is these two corps tend to be over-hyped more than the rest. This thread seems to confirm as much. I think that reflects some of what I said above and the desire of many fans to shift the balance of power on many levels. HH This might be the most comprehensive and well reasoned analysis of 08 that I have ever read. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 This might be the most comprehensive and well reasoned analysis of 08 that I have ever read. Well done. Definitely over-hyping my post. HH 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Everyone loved PR 08 because it connected viscerally with the audience in a way that very few shows do anymore. Say what you want, people wanted them to win, because they enjoyed them the most. Cheering for the boring but almost perfectly executed show gets really old after a while, and in the end most people would rather see kickassedness rewarded over technical excellence that is void of connection to the audience. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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