The average age of different corps

[JonW]

This, essentially, is the question I posed in another thread a couple weeks (months?) back when another had stated that recordings from the 60's and 70's were musically horrible (paraphrasing). I asked then that if the age factor was being overlooked. When I marched we did have many that were in their late-teens/twenties but again many were in the 13-17 range. A lot of the corps at that time were marching much younger members with much less experience.

Listen to some of the old recordings... listen to Diceman Radio... seriously; there are some bad notes, there are some questionable sounds, there are some awkward arrangements - but there is a ton of beautiful stuff goin' on. Every note came from a player.

Best example I can offer: Listen to the '72 & '73 Muchachos - young, RAW, very talented. '74 Muchachos - talented, powerful, disciplined and working from what was established in '73. 1975... ack! Problems... but!! Essentially, the corps grew and aged into the program that 'could' have walked away with a trophy that year. Yes, they ran into problems with the over-age, but the meat of the corps was still in the teens.

The meat of many of the competing corps of the 70's was in the teens. The meat of many of today's competing corps are in their 20's.

The meat of many of the competing corps stayed with the same corps throughout their marching years.

Today - they get a couple here, a couple there, snag a spot in the top and are off and running (this is not to degrade the acheivements of any that have followed or will follow this path, I am merely attempting to point out a difference between 'Then and Now').

This is in no way a voice of disappointment, it is merely an attempt to offer additional info into the variety of discussions that pop up regarding the vast variety of discussions that DCP is already famous for.

Whew! /wipes brow...

[JimF-LowBari]

The meat of many of the competing corps of the 70's was in the teens. The meat of many of today's competing corps are in their 20's.

Don't forget the difference between trying to tame the piston/rotor beasts of the 70s and the more musical 3v (either key) of today. Way too easy to overblow the P/Rs which even I can pick out here and there on some of the better 70s DCI recordings.

Been there... played both...

[Bruckner8]

Maturity come with age. I can't say that any of the World Class corps lack work ethic. Some may be more talented than others but they definitely all push as hard as they can in the end.

I would love if someone ( maybe Garfield with his fancy graph making skills *hint *hint) would compare the average ages of all the corps the past 2 or 3 years. It might be interesting to see a correlation between average age and placement received... Very interesting...

The data does NOT exist in a central database, and to do the analysis properly would require unprecedented co-operation from the sample corps. Basically, someone would have write each corps and ask for a list of birth-dates for every member that marched finals for each of the three years. The only way this would be legal is if the corps produced the lists WITHOUT NAMES. (It should be OK to include the section, and would be more fun too! The problem is the drum majors...too easily identified.)

Otherwise, you'd have to "trust" each corps director with telling you "oh, yeah, our average age was around x." That would never pass muster as a serious statistical abstract, lol.

Some student could do this as a research project, because it would be a real-world kick in the pants, too! (That is, dealing with paranoid, over-protective directors/CEOs when asking for data.) All they'd really have to give up is the list of birth-dates for the people who marched finals for each year. If the sections were included the DM's birth-dates would have to be EXCLUDED, thus changing the study to "The average age of the non-DMs." If the DMs are INCLUDED, they should be added to the HORNLINE since the numbers are greatest, and thus less likely to cause a large statistical error. In any case, if we care about sections, the DM issue would have to be published with the study. If we don't care about sections, then all we can calculate is overall average age for each corps as of Finals for each year.

[corpsband]

The data does NOT exist in a central database, and to do the analysis properly would require unprecedented co-operation from the sample corps.

Actually it probably does ( corpsdata.net ). Of course you'd still need to get permission from each corps.

[Bruckner8]

Actually it probably does ( corpsdata.net ). Of course you'd still need to get permission from each corps.

Only 2/3 of the Top 12 use corps data. Look for yourself: http://www.trigonroad.com/cd/

[corpsband]

Only 2/3 of the Top 12 use corps data. Look for yourself: http://www.trigonroad.com/cd/

Not sure that's a complete list...

[84BDsop]

I think Corps Data's Average Age reports are reported for the END OF THE SEASON, maybe Sept 1. This is so they don't have to worry about tracking the changing date of Finals every year.

Therefore, the age is inflated by 2-3 weeks (for everyone).

20.4 sounds about right for any top tier corps, basically saying "most of the members are 19, 20 or 21." It would be interesting to see the Standard Deviation as well, to get a confidence of the amount of members within the mean. For example, it would be possible for BD and Cavies to have Avg Age = 20.4, but the SD might be lower for BD than Cavies (showing that Cavies have more variation, wider range of ages)

Wasn't the average age of 84 SCV fairly young? Yet you spanked us a lot until after Whitewater and still took 3rd.

[MikeN]

I don't know where I heard this, and I tried to get more info from DCI, but...

I heard that for the past few years the corps with the highest average age has always won first place. I can not verify this as fact but I would certainly like to know if that is true.

I posted that, and I got it from a source who'd know - the only year that the corps with the highest average age didn't win (since they've been tracking it) was 2008, when BD got upset.

Mike

[hostrauser]

Two corps that stand out in my memory are 2007 Cavaliers and 1992 Blue Devils. I seem to recall the average age for both corps (at least in the brass) was pretty young, younger than most other DCI corps those seasons.

[Bruckner8]

Wasn't the average age of 84 SCV fairly young? Yet you spanked us a lot until after Whitewater and still took 3rd.

That's the rumor, but I really don't know. I know we had a 3rd Sop nicknamed "1990" because that's when he aged out, and I think it was his 2nd year! (He was my seat partner, the coolest, most optimistic kid. He kept me sane, and he doesn't even know it.) It was a very young and fresh hornline, since all of the older dudes went to do the "Olympic Band" thing. I recall the vets from 84 commenting on how it felt like a new drum corps; sometimes that was good, but more of the time it was bad, lol. Then PP happened, and everything was OK! "We're going to be pretty good!"

We had a 16 yr old in the contras, only one ageout, the rest were 18-20, avg around 18.5. The mello section (Only 4 of them, amazing) had no age outs, but were all over 18. French Horns (8) were mostly college, with maybe one high school girl, so 18-19. Baris/Euphs and esp Sops were way young. Lots of HS students in those sections, many in the 16-17 range, and the one 15 yr old. But not enough to drag the avg age below 18, which had been rumored. It was definitely one of the leanest years for age-outs, so maybe that made everyone think it was much younger than it was. There were plenty of old guys like myself, marching for the first time at age 20.