GUARDLING Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Ive read Sayre Kulp and Jersey boys opinions here and I find myself agreeing with both of them. Clearly The Class A division is a warranted division and needed division. On the other other hand if Fusion, WR and Bush were to combine forces they would be a powerhouse in the Open Class Division. No argument there. I guess my next statements are going to be thought provoking. I feel some will deem them as negative. That is not my intent. Then intent is to bring about some spirited discussion and possible solutions that might be somewhat outside the box of conventional thinking. My understanding of why the Class A division was brought about was that smallish corps found themselves at a competitive disadvantage against the larger corps. So the Class A division was brought about to allow the smallish corps to become competitive within their given classification. That seems to be working out wonderfully. Lets jump ahead to 2011 where we are at today as it applies to the Open class corps. Now we have open class and class A two separate divisions and there are some VERY good Class A corps out there that have shown they can hang with the lower half of the open class corps and possibly come over the top of the open class corps outside semis and finals. Now in 2011 what we have is 5 very LARGE and powerful corps and 6 smallish size open class corps having a hard time cracking into that top 5 bracket. Huge separation in 5th and 6th place in the points standings. Some of those Smallish open class corps will probably field numbers under the 65 rule come labor day. Some have even commented and suggested that its unreasonable for those corps to be competing in the open class division even though the rules allow for it. So is it time to look at 2011 and come up with a 2011 solution? Or just keep things the way they are? theres also been several on here that believe that more is better....more corps ..Look how healthy the activity is how DCA is growing or the actiity is growing...well more doesnt mean better or even healthy..it just means more. we can split say the cabs or Bucs up into 8 corps between the two of them as does that make the actiity more healthy? I say no...Yes some smaller corps have been successful But when you talk numbers of 24 horns or 12 horns and people dont see its a sign of the times or that something isnt right, well those are the same people down the road who say what the XXXX happened! I do think A class was good for DCA but there is still major problems facing the activity all you have to do is take off the rose color glasses and see it.....JMO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florida Sun Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 [quClasote name=GUARDLING' timestamp='1309743577' post='3024549] theres also been several on here that believe that more is better....more corps ..Look how healthy the activity is how DCA is growing or the actiity is growing...well more doesnt mean better or even healthy..it just means more. we can split say the cabs or Bucs up into 8 corps between the two of them as does that make the actiity more healthy? I say no...Yes some smaller corps have been successful But when you talk numbers of 24 horns or 12 horns and people dont see its a sign of the times or that something isnt right, well those are the same people down the road who say what the XXXX happened! I do think A class was good for DCA but there is still major problems facing the activity all you have to do is take off the rose color glasses and see it.....JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florida Sun Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Class A was designed to give smaller corps the chance to complete against corps there own size.All corps either Open or ClassA have the chance to go in either disvision .If Rochcester Crusaders had choose to go Class A they might still be around .All corps fight to meet the numbers to come out with the largest and best corps they can.Travel the past few years with the cost has hurt many corps.Just look at this season compared to last .or go back to 2007 .looking at the year book no longer Skyliners ,Rochester Crusaders ,Kingston Grenadiers some corps staying close to home Lakeshoremen ,Gulf Coast Sound ,So. Cal Dream,Chops Inc.,Frontier .Corps taking a year off to rebuild money Sun Devils ,Music City Legend ,Brigadiers .The class A was to help corps build and one day move up into Open.Alliance and CorpsVets where able to move up .and really make a mark in OpenClass.Thats what its all about grow from within .New corps are out this year Tampa Bay Thunder ,and Windsor Regiment ,Arkanas Thunder yet to come out .And many other start ups .DCA may be feeling the lost of some corps but new ones are building and soon to take the field .So all is not doom n goom .There;s always the next weeks contest ,i remmber DCA running 3 shows in one night and all good shows . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camel lips Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Class A was designed to give smaller corps the chance to complete against corps there own size.All corps either Open or ClassA have the chance to go in either disvision .If Rochcester Crusaders had choose to go Class A they might still be around .All corps fight to meet the numbers to come out with the largest and best corps they can.Travel the past few years with the cost has hurt many corps.Just look at this season compared to last .or go back to 2007 .looking at the year book no longer Skyliners ,Rochester Crusaders ,Kingston Grenadiers some corps staying close to home Lakeshoremen ,Gulf Coast Sound ,So. Cal Dream,Chops Inc.,Frontier .Corps taking a year off to rebuild money Sun Devils ,Music City Legend ,Brigadiers .The class A was to help corps build and one day move up into Open.Alliance and CorpsVets where able to move up .and really make a mark in OpenClass.Thats what its all about grow from within .New corps are out this year Tampa Bay Thunder ,and Windsor Regiment ,Arkanas Thunder yet to come out .And many other start ups .DCA may be feeling the lost of some corps but new ones are building and soon to take the field .So all is not doom n goom .There;s always the next weeks contest ,i remmber DCA running 3 shows in one night and all good shows . In recent years SMALISH DCA corps competing in open class are not fairing well in scores or being competitive to the point of breaking into the top 5. I feel certain that is because of the way the sheets are constructed and credit being given to field coverage and visual. Seeing the loss of so many of the corps you mentioned should be a alarming warning or at least a substantial consideration for the smallish corps wishing to compete in open class with class A ish numbers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayre Kulp Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I hear a lot of people saying that it's the same corps in the top 5 all the time and that the other corps can't get there and that it used to be that a number of corps could win on a given night. I feel like maybe we're getting a little too short-sighted here. It wasn't that long ago that the landscape was different. Minnesota Brass has been in 2nd for 3 straight years now. But it wasn't THAT long ago that they cracked the Top 5 for the very first time (1998). Before that they mostly hung out in the 9-12 spots. Look at them now. Back then I enjoyed their shows, but I never predicted them as a perennial contender one day. Hell, I remember when CorpsVets first started recruiting. I saw their booth in Allentown and laughed. A corps from GEORGIA?!?!?! I stopped laughing a few years later when they were kicking my ### all over the field. Heck, it was just 5-6 years ago that Sky and Hurricanes (and even Bush) were fighting week in and week out for those last few finalist spots. Now Hurricanes are a perennial top-5 corps, Sky is off the field rebuilding and Bush came out the next two seasons in a solid 3rd, before falling back to where they are now. I guess my point is that just like with the Brigs, someone will EVENTUALLY topple the Bucs. The rest of Open Class and Class A will continue to shift and evolve. Some corps will get better, some will need to rebuild. As to "more corps always equals better" I say, "not entirely." Sure, we could have 50 mini corps running around trying to cover a field, and that may not fly so well. But let's face it - that's not what we're looking at here. Class A has evolved from a lifeline for the tiny corps, to a hard fought battle every single year. If you honestly think things are worse now than in the past, go pop in your VHS tapes of 1993 DCA Finals. Tell me that was better than 2003. Or better yet - go watch Class A Championship from 1997 - the first year. Besides seeing my happy ### out there, look at how the Class A Champion performed in 1997 and compare it with say Fusion last year. Talk about night and day. I'm not suggesting it's perfect, but it's a whole lot better these days than it was some years back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I agree with Sayre. Another good thing about the A class is it forced corps to be smart about how they design their show. And yeah , 93 was rough and to be honest, from 88 til 2001, it was what, 18 corps at most? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 again I think you are looking as more as better.,,as I said if you take Bucs and cabs and split them up into several 12 person hornline corps does it make it better because now there are more corps?...ahhh NO IMO Size aint everything...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bariman50 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I can remember watching the Bucs in late 80s I think with 25 horns or so, playing a tough book and their instructor hollering at them, to play their best and they hung in there, and, here they are, it will be someone elses turn sooner or later. Just enjoy what you see, used to be 8 to 10 corps now 22 or so, wow!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I can remember watching the Bucs in late 80s I think with 25 horns or so, playing a tough book and their instructor hollering at them, to play their best and they hung in there, and, here they are, it will be someone elses turn sooner or later. Just enjoy what you see, used to be 8 to 10 corps now 22 or so, wow!!! guess it's another way to look at it and what a person deems successful. I would venture to think some of these way small corps could be some hold out diehards which is great and ery admirable. Question would be is what happens when they are gone. Oh well, what it is it is.I agree enjoy what you see, whatever that may be and enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschool1180 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Considering that many people didn't believe Bush would make it to the field in 2011, I'd say ANY score for them is a huge accomplishment. from all us Bushwackers we will not give up we love our corp to much to quit now once again we will improve weekly until were back on top 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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