N.E. Brigand Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) SCV -- horn players running around like they are lost in a maze. Hell is not a maze, it's full of fire and brimstone, and I won't go into that further. Also, it is impossible to really escape Hell, since Hell is eternal fire and damnation. The horn players should not escape at the end. That kind of ruins it for me, because I know they are telling a lie. Artists ought to have the right to contradict facts if doing so serves some greater purpose. Arguably, Phantom's 2008 "Spartacus" distorts history by ending on a victorious note -- but it works. Although I haven't seen Vanguard's show yet, my first thought on reading your description is of great artists who have portrayed Hell differently than, or not only with, brimstone and fire: Dante's worst sinners are described as frozen in ice, while Bosch has some people eaten by a giant bird and excreted into a transparent chamber pot. (Some people may feel that Sartre's existentialist hell best fits DCP: "L’Enfer, c’est les autres".) Additionally, while I agree that the concept of a Hell from which one can escape makes little sense, what if it's not Hell but merely an image thereof? Like Dante again, presented with visions of Hell, Purgatory, and Heaven for his moral improvement, so that he may later "escape" Hell by not being ###### in the first place? Edit: Very strange that the adjective I used was censored but the equivalent noun used by BW was not. (And the whole thing is amusingly opposed to the 1935 film of The Scarlet Pimpernel, in which the polite ladies reciting the Pimpernel poem won't say "Hell" but have no problem with "d###ed".) Edited July 20, 2011 by N.E. Brigand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Other Mike Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 SCV - horn players running around like they are lost in a maze. Hell is not a maze, it's full of fire and brimstone, and I won't go into that further. Also, it is impossible to really escape Hell, since Hell is eternal fire and damnation. The horn players should not escape at the end. That kind of ruins it for me, because I know they are telling a lie. So exactly how do you know what hell is like ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 So exactly how do you know what hell is like? The answer probably would lead dangerously off-topic into religious discussion--so I interpreted BW's initial remark that he "won't go into that farther", which led me to take his understanding of the matter as a given, and yet show (I hope) that SCV ought to be permitted the the creative impulse to play loose with the "facts", whatever they may be. (After all, if one couldn't contradict reality, there would be no fantasy and very little science fiction!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 SCV - horn players running around like they are lost in a maze. Hell is not a maze, it's full of fire and brimstone, and I won't go into that further. Also, it is impossible to really escape Hell, since Hell is eternal fire and damnation. The horn players should not escape at the end. That kind of ruins it for me, because I know they are telling a lie. Hoping your tongue is in cheek. Take my response however seriously your comment was intended: What is your source for this? Hell has been depicted in any number of ways in literature and other media over the past thousands of years, including escapes therefrom. Does the lack of brimstone and ability to escape ruin The Divine Comedy for you? The Aeneid? Does the fact that he described a trip through hell in a book get you down on CS Lewis? I think the show design is incredibly evocative of a terrifying vision of Hell in which no matter how hard you try to escape, things keep folding back on themselves, like in Labyrinth or in an MC Escher drawing. And the title source material by Ligeti is absolutely the perfect musical counterpart to the the visuals and the theme. To keep on topic, I'd get rid of the synth in this show, as I can't figure out what it adds to the show, it's usually turned down so low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Other Mike Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 My version of hell would be stuck on a summer tour with Granny and Hopkins 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 The answer probably would lead dangerously off-topic into religious discussion--so I interpreted BW's initial remark that he "won't go into that farther", which led me to take his understanding of the matter as a given, and yet show (I hope) that SCV ought to be permitted the the creative impulse to play loose with the "facts", whatever they may be. (After all, if one couldn't contradict reality, there would be no fantasy and very little science fiction!) Well, since their show is called "The Devil's Staircase", clearly that implies some way out. And if anyone listened to the Greg Anderson version of the Ligeti on that website full of videos.... It makes more sense. The opening line is, "Imagine you're in hell, and you want out." That's pretty much the story of the show. You're trapped in hell, and are trying to escape. The Dorman is all about the terror of hell, the Jenkins"Eternal Knot" is all about the hope for escape and redemption, and the Ligeti is the escape up the staircase, trying to get out of hell. Sure sounds simple, huh? It's not a literal interpretation of hell, it's a journey. Sounds like some folks are kind of reaching to find ways to not like the show.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesleyrp Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 So exactly how do you know what hell is like ? Hell is most definitely wherever the Lakers or Mavericks are!! Mark Cuban is Satan!! GO SPURS GO!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000Cadet Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I'd get rid of everyone who labeled someone else a "hater" because someone's opinion differs from theirs. I'd also get rid of this thread because it's a bashfest. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I'd get rid of everyone who labeled someone else a "hater" because someone's opinion differs from theirs. I'd also get rid of this thread because it's a bashfest. I have to agree with Tekk. On both points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesleyrp Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Ok I'll play!! Cadets- take out some synth the corps doesn't need that much Cavies- Stilts have to go! Devils- The entire vis package and props! Crown- cut down the amount of Pre show Phantom- The ballad from the movie... Blah... Bluecoats- the repeat horn move from last season... All hornline turns towards each other. Meh, already seen it! SCV- the music!! SCV 2000 could've been hellish and I'd buy it more! Madison- Scatter drills. BK- the final note, needs a fast moving end with bang/take that, in your face kind of mantra. Boston- From the end of the end zone playing to beg of Closer! The tarp and solo/solis are a borefest. Opener and closer cool. BStars- the theme and the ramp! Music and drill would stand alone and with more room to manuever. The Bourne thing doesn't work/seems forced! Love the aggressive music and drill, could be about Exlax for all I care.. Good stuff! Troopers- the beginning drill. Love the end and middle beg visually is just ok... Spirit- the back half drill- too much stand and play at the back of show! Glassmen- the Music. Not memorable Colts- the lightning bolt on the uni. Crossmen- the unis!! Bring back the red/black and grey unis of late 90s!! Killer look.. Ending of show, loses steam Academy- tour schedule- just kidding..... I'd like to see a better drill in the closer more like the beg! Not sold on unis!! That said there's not a single show out of these wonderful corps I dislike!! Really great shows this. Summer!!:-) Wes P 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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