ajwdad Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 While they do what they do very well, from a design perspective they take the least amount of risk of any top corps out there. If your program is strikingly similar year after year after year, what is there really to reward from a design perspective other than level? Cadets, BD, Crown all take much more significant risks year on year than Cavaliers. agreed. But the cavies have a rabid following. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) Perhaps she's the universes way of balancing out Marie Czapinski's scores. Seems like MC has an eternal hardon for the Cavaliers I've been running some numbers on the tilts various judges have for and against certain corps. There's not enough data to say anything with confidence, but while the OP is right that Debbie Torchia tends to underrate the Cavies compared to other judges (by -0.38 in whatever subcaption, by my calculations), Marie Czapinski has been almost equally hard on the Cavaliers this year: -0.33. Debbie's not the hardest on the Cavies, though. Mike Stone hits them hardest (-0.5) followed by Albert Lo and Bret Mascaro. And for what it's worth the judges who most favor the Cavies are John Bell (+1.23) and Peter Funari (+1.21). /geekout PS: all the numbers are based just on 2011, and are probably meaningless. Edited July 23, 2011 by skywhopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcialumni1989 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I've been running some numbers on the tilts various judges have for and against certain corps. There's not enough data to say anything with confidence, but while the OP is right that Debbie Torchia tends to underrate the Cavies compared to other judges (by -0.38 in whatever subcaption, by my calculations), Marie Czapinski has been almost equally hard on the Cavaliers this year: -0.33. Debbie's not the hardest on the Cavies, though. Mike Stone hits them hardest (-0.5) followed by Albert Lo and Bret Mascaro. And for what it's worth the judges who most favor the Cavies are John Bell (+1.23) and Peter Funari (+1.21). /geekout PS: all the numbers are based just on 2011, and are probably meaningless. The other night I asked some of the guys on horn staff about Albert Lo putting them in third at the Denton show. Their response was "We were the third best hornline tonight. We need to play better." They went on to talk about how they like him as a judge and hope he is there finals week.... So, the statistics don't seem to match how their staff feels about him as a judge. I believe people read to much into the judges bias. It is an easy way out when your corps isn't scoring where you want them. It is the number one excuse, followed by my favorite excuse: "politics." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nero14 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I'm not a big Debbie T fan myself... funny how so many people aren't 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloudFuel Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 People, drum corps is art that is subjectively judged by others and then arbitrarily assigned a score. I guarantee that if you focus on the product of the corps over the product of the judges you will enjoy drum corps more (especially this year). Very well said! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 agreed. But the cavies have a rabid following. Right. And you read about it every day on that 100+ page "Cavaliers 2011" thread that's always on Page 1 of the Forum. Not. Funny, there are lots of others though.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flguardman Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Obviously she's a big BD Fan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 The other night I asked some of the guys on horn staff about Albert Lo putting them in third at the Denton show. Their response was "We were the third best hornline tonight. We need to play better." They went on to talk about how they like him as a judge and hope he is there finals week.... So, the statistics don't seem to match how their staff feels about him as a judge. I believe people read to much into the judges bias. It is an easy way out when your corps isn't scoring where you want them. It is the number one excuse, followed by my favorite excuse: "politics." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wadep66 Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Wait. What? Crown is doing a college marching band show (see Western Carolina from last year). They are doing a fantastic job at it and it is very entertaining, but not a lot of new territory there. The fact that their show does not have a lot of risk or depth is why they will probably not win, because they perform VERY well. Cadets are not doing ANYTHING new this year. The most innovative thing they are doing is the two uniforms on the field, which was done by the 1987 Skyryders. Still a great show, but nothing new from them. BD is copying the formulas that they have used the last few years. 2010, very innovative. Tons of Risk. 2011 is derivative. Also, they stand around while playing A LOT. Not a lot of risk when you stand stand still and play as much as they do. Cavaliers do have similar looking drill every year because it is Michael Gaines. He has a certain personality and style as does Leon May, Jeff Sacktig, Jay Murphey, Myron Rosander, & Pete Weber (among others). This year The cavaliers are doing lots of things that have never been done before and that is why they are getting rewarded even when they get outperformed. Can you expand on what you believe the Cavaliers are doing that has never been done before? I've seen people on stilts before in marching band and guard. Is holding a couple of drummers upside-down a couple of times enough to vault you into the visual lead? If it is then why didn't the Cadets win in 2006 for leaping from tables? So that this isn't completely off topic...If design is really the only thing rated in the design category then how does a show that doesn't change in design go from 7.whatever to 9.whatever over the course of the season? Judging has been beaten to death on here. I do believe judges have biases just like we all do. Impossible not to. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartans87 Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) OK - I did NOT read through more than the opening post and a few replies (a beer for Hockey Dad because that reply was awesome ), but I want you all to see what the OP (GRJT) has done now, for the 2nd time in a few days: Throws out the bait, and goes quiet while everyone attacks each other. A troll on the loose my friends...... Just calling it like I see it.....and I hope you all see this as well and stop taking the bait!! Edited to add the first topic the OP started "Crown Thinks They have Passed the Cavaliers", that was obvious troll material, and is now appropriately locked.... Edited July 26, 2011 by Spartans87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.