How do we save Drum Corps

[danielray]

True.. society changed, sponsors like the Church and the Veteran Organizations pulled back suppport. These were pivotal suppport mechanisms. When they pulled back, most Corps were at a loss to find suitable replacement sponsors.

(the?) Church and veterean orgs did not suddenly pull back support for corps, they just lost support from general public, which meant less ability to support corps. If they had the same proportionate level of interest and support that they did decades ago.... corps would still be well supported by these institutions.

Kennedy assassination, Vietnam war and Watergate... caused people to lose faith in institutions.... and subsequently lose support. Local drum corps is just one the many casualties of this cultural shift.

I also might add that the National Touring Model implemented by DCI right from the getgo exasperated and accelerated the loss of Corps and fans too, imo. DCI might have been better served in hindsight utilizing the successful NCAA College sports Tournament model where Corps only traveled and competed regionally... say in 4 regionals spread out in 4 sections of the country. The top 8 Corps ( 2 from each regional ) would then advance to the Championships of 3 days of Quarters, Semi's, Finals at a national site. It would have led to more regional loyalties, kept costs down for the majority of Corps, and maybe kept a lot of Corps alive. The reason Corps folded AFTER DCI was formed, was primarily economic and financial in nature. The traveling costs were simply too much for dozens of them to sustain and absorb. Once Corps size also increased exponentially, and we added large and huge props to shows ( expensive to transport ) the costs likewise soared, and as a result more Corps went to an early grave from these changes as well. We sometimes forget that dozens of Corps were started AFTER DCI was formed .Most of them gone as well. The activity has lost more Corps since DCI was formed, than it has in existence in numbers in DCI World Class Division competition today. We can't ignore that fact in our discussions either it seems to me.

Emphasis on national touring model won out due to the increasing weakness of the local support model. DCI didn't kill local corps, it was just that this is what survived after the collapse of support for religious/veteran organizations. Again, this has little to do with drum corps, but more to do with loss of interest in and support for the types of local organization that supported drum corps.

Thankfully schools stepped up and, at least, created a base of support for marching bands (it is really high school football that drum corp owes the debt to more than anything else in the universe... without the spike in support for high school football in the 1970's... drum corps would no longer exist).

[JimF-LowBari]

(the?) Church and veterean orgs did not suddenly pull back support for corps, they just lost support from general public, which meant less ability to support corps. If they had the same proportionate level of interest and support that they did decades ago.... corps would still be well supported by these institutions.

In the case of AL and VFW the decline in membership was more due old age and death as most of their members came from the WWI and WWII groups. Posts that are currently doing well are going for family member (Sons of the AL) and social memberships. But with those potential members there is more competition from other organizations.

As for the city churches that supported corps, as the cities declined and people moved to the suburbs the churches moved with the people. Or for the Catholics, the archdiocise(sp!) closed churches as the membership declined. Some of those buildings are now minority non-demoninational churches (or my fav - a Mosque). Why these 'burb churches never supported corps I don't know. Guess would be the cost vs the benefit compared to other youth group activies made DC a less likely option as DC costs went up.

Note: Info on decline of city churches came from a seminar I attended while a VP on council of a city church (what I was doing while not attending DC shows). Interesting if puke inspiring and lot of that info can be applied to the decline of DC in the cities and other places.

Edited May 3, 2012 by JimF-LowBari

[Tim K]

(the?) Church and veterean orgs did not suddenly pull back support for corps, they just lost support from general public, which meant less ability to support corps. If they had the same proportionate level of interest and support that they did decades ago.... corps would still be well supported by these institutions.

Kennedy assassination, Vietnam war and Watergate... caused people to lose faith in institutions.... and subsequently lose support. Local drum corps is just one the many casualties of this cultural shift.

Emphasis on national touring model won out due to the increasing weakness of the local support model. DCI didn't kill local corps, it was just that this is what survived after the collapse of support for religious/veteran organizations. Again, this has little to do with drum corps, but more to do with loss of interest in and support for the types of local organization that supported drum corps.

Thankfully schools stepped up and, at least, created a base of support for marching bands (it is really high school football that drum corp owes the debt to more than anything else in the universe... without the spike in support for high school football in the 1970's... drum corps would no longer exist).

This thread and similar threads often go back to the days of Church support and the support of veteran's organizations. I can't speak about veteran's groups, or denominations other than Roman Catholic churches, but if people believe that by support, a church group bankrolled a corps "Star of Indiana" style, that's most likely not the case.It's also not the case that most corps broke away from parishes when financial support no longer existed though that of often stated as the case. While its true a church could not afford to sponsor a DCI level corps, power struggles between parish leadership and corps leadership wereoften the larger issue.

Catholic churches started drum corps, bands, or drill teams for a number of reasons. The first is that the activities could accommodate a good number of young people and it "kept kids off the streets." Parishes at that time were often defined by the various activities offered and drum corps was an activity that helped build up many parishes. It also offered bragging rights. Most drum corps, bands, and drill teams hailed from larger parishes so drum corps were a source of pride. Parishes often provided rehearsal space, the parish probably paid the salaries of any paid staff, and a parish became a primary source of recruitment. Parishes also provided a "spiritual director" who was probably young, charismatic, and hard-working, but by their own admissions often did more refereeing between corps staff and parents than attending to the needs of the young people in his charge, but in many cases they provided exceptional examples of care and leadership that is still remembered by the kids who marched. Parishes did not give vast amounts of money. Parents and volunteers worked at BINGOS, held dances, car washes, etc. to raise the funds to support a corps. Being affiliated with a church probably made it easier, but it was still the work of many people. I have heard this from some of the priests who started corps, as well as by parents who did the leg work.

Parishes with facilities and Bing Crosby "Going My Way" style priests may be from the past, but the church sponsored drum corps does have something to offer for today other than nostalgia. Churches had the ability to rally people to get a corps started and keep a corps running. People didn't have jobs with the corps, they had responsibilities. First place was important and excellence and integrity mattered, so too working for the greater good. Drum corps in church settings was an example of what happens when people with varied gifts and talents come together to make something happen, but it doesn't have to happen exclusively in a church setting. Drum corps that survived after church sponsorships, or corps that were sponsored by churches in name only are proof of this.

Bottom line: if drum corps is to be revived on the local level or continue to survive where it currently exists, lots of people have to come together to make it happen. It was key back in the day of church sponsorship and its key today.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Tim K

[MikeD]

I also might add that the National Touring Model implemented by DCI right from the getgo exasperated and accelerated the loss of Corps and fans too, imo.

The problem with that concept to me is that hundreds of local corps that had almost nothing to do with DCI are the bulk of those that folded through the 70's and 80's.

If you look at 1975 Open class finals, of 12 corps...9 are still in existence. From 1980....8 of 12 are still around. 1985...9 of 12.

[JonW]

Being curious about all these competitive marching bands that have supplanted the need for more drum corps prompted me to do a search for "competitive marching bands in wisconsin".

Admittedly, I was surprised to see thirteen schools listed. I was not surprised to see the majority of them in the southern-southeast portion of the state... and I was not surprised to have not heard of any of them, but one: Lutheran Vanguard.

It likely is a much different story in other parts of the nation, but competitive bands here do not come close to covering the regions that had drum corps participation. Do I know the story (full or otherwise)? Absolutely not; but also I cannot conclude that competitive marching bands are a suitable replacement for genuine drum corps - especially in this part of the nation.

Like another before me posted, one would need to attend that particular school to be part of that program. I really don't see someone transferring from Cedarburg to Waukesha, or say, an Episcopal student at Appleton West switching over to Lutheran just to march in the band.

[audiodb]

The problem with that concept to me is that hundreds of local corps that had almost nothing to do with DCI are the bulk of those that folded through the 70's and 80's.

But that "almost nothing" involved a significant amount of expensive travel for some of those corps.

If you look at 1975 Open class finals, of 12 corps...9 are still in existence. From 1980....8 of 12 are still around. 1985...9 of 12.

If you look at the 1975 class A prelims, out of 19 corps....only two still exist. All-girl prelims....all ten are gone. From 1980....all 21 of the corps that went to Birmingham for class A/AG are dead.

[JimF-LowBari]

(the?) Church and veterean orgs did not suddenly pull back support for corps, they just lost support from general public, which meant less ability to support corps. If they had the same proportionate level of interest and support that they did decades ago.... corps would still be well supported by these institutions.

Missed a point earlier

Even with the same level of support, I doubt if the Posts and Churches could support corps the way they could in the past. Main reason is the cost of starting and running a corps has exploded since BITD (pick your own era). Can't pick up good used cheap equipment like you used to, gas prices are X times what they were in the past for any transportation, insurance is now needed in these "sue me, sue you' days, background checks, etc, etc. Oh yeah, being able to find adult volunteers/helpers is harder.

[bill]

Being curious about all these competitive marching bands that have supplanted the need for more drum corps prompted me to do a search for "competitive marching bands in wisconsin".

Admittedly, I was surprised to see thirteen schools listed. I was not surprised to see the majority of them in the southern-southeast portion of the state... and I was not surprised to have not heard of any of them, but one: Lutheran Vanguard.

It likely is a much different story in other parts of the nation, but competitive bands here do not come close to covering the regions that had drum corps participation. Do I know the story (full or otherwise)? Absolutely not; but also I cannot conclude that competitive marching bands are a suitable replacement for genuine drum corps - especially in this part of the nation.

Like another before me posted, one would need to attend that particular school to be part of that program. I really don't see someone transferring from Cedarburg to Waukesha, or say, an Episcopal student at Appleton West switching over to Lutheran just to march in the band.

There are actually several competitive marching band programs in Wisconsin. One is a circuit which involves shows from June through mid-July (MACBDA), and another is the Fall program (WSMA) of which rehearsals traditionally begin in late July/August, with the state championship in October. MACBDA is not a school to student related format, whereas WSMA are the actual HS band programs. With the Summer MACBDA programs, there are drum corps ties, inasmuch some of the directors are of drum corps background, and many of the instructional and creative staffs have drum corps involvement and backgrounds.

[audiodb]

Name one lesson from the past that has not been appropriately addressed. Seriously, any lessons currently relevant have been well learned (Miss Jackson, if you're nasty).

Oh? Apparently, judging from the G7 fiasco, top corps still haven't learned this lesson. When you set up an organization to serve X number of member corps while using Y other non-member corps, eventually you will be left with only X.

Once upon a time, ten corps got together to form their own circuit to serve their best interests....which would ordinarily be just fine. Except in this case (DCI), they promoted this circuit as something that would serve the entire junior corps activity's best interests. So they set up shows, tours, world championships, etc., talking dozens (eventually hundreds) of non-member corps into participating without getting the benefit$ of DCI membership.

I'm sure DCI's founders meant well....they probably felt justified that since they were creating the circuit in the first place, why shouldn't they get something extra for their trouble? But this is how DCI has operated for all 40 of their years....and for that entire time, the number of surviving corps has declined in a manner that approaches X asymptotically. Thankfully, at least X has grown from the initial 10 to as much as 25 over the years (now 23), but some member corps are very reluctant to grow that number.

Using the "have-nots" to leverage the circuit for the benefit of the "haves" seemed like a great idea back when there were 400 "have-nots". Now, there are less than two dozen....and we're still keeping them in the "have-not" category. How's that working?

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Of course, your response will be that since you believe there should only be X corps anyway, that the situation is already being addressed appropriately. As we have found out in recent times, your belief is shared among some of those top corps administrators....in fact, some think X should be a smaller number than it is now. You (and they) are entitled to that opinion....and I am entitled to mine.

And a disclaimer for the coming wave of posts saying "no, it was:

declining veteran support

declining church support

end of baby boom

gas prices

inflation

societal changes - go read Bowling Alone

video games

President (fill in the blank)'s policies

marching band

etc."

....of course, many factors have affected the corps population. Haves vs. have-nots is one, a big one IMO....but not the only one.

[glory]

...Once upon a time, ten corps got together to form their own circuit to serve their best interests....which would ordinarily be just fine. Except in this case (DCI), they promoted this circuit as something that would serve the entire junior corps activity's best interests. So they set up shows, tours, world championships, etc., talking dozens (eventually hundreds) of non-member corps into participating without getting the benefit$ of DCI membership...

If you're making the case that there would be more corps today had no organization like DCI been formed, then you're going to have to offer some support for how all those corps would have survived all the transition and turmoil around them.

It's easy and convenient to blame DCI. I say you can't make a reasonable case for the survival of all those corps - big or small - because lower expenses by itself wouldn't have been enough. You still had to attract the kids, the crowds and the cash. And those were disappearing before our eyes irrespective of DCI.

HH