Jeff Ream Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Here you go again G, off in a side conversation with Ream without adult supervision.......and discussing percents and fractions to boot. Don't make me turn this thread around. BTW, the 99% don't look at you two with confusion.....they look at you with archaeologist tools! :-) I'm still waiting for Ty Pennington so shush you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I am sorry that DCI is the source of everything wrong that ever happened in drum corps for you. I have tried to imagine what it would be like if DCI had never formed. Here are some possible things that I imagine could have happened..... (1) a corps goes undefeated, wins VFW prelims, then falls to 10th because of a "uniform malfunction" during inspection in finals.........daddy tries to explain to his 9 year old son why a broken belt buckle can/should cost the best corps 9 places in the show, even if the audience didn't see inspection............. (2) a corps from the Pacific Northwest gets a score of 80-85 at every show in the first half of August, then gets a 63 at VFW prelims................ (3) a rule is created during 1976 for the disqualification of any corps wearing a "non-military" uniform, and the Bayonne Bridgemen are disqualified at VFW prelims.. later on, the Velvet Knights are disqualified as well........... (4) due to money "constraints", VFW and AL restrict prize money to the top 5 finishers only. They make this announcement in May. Since they control everything, they turn a deaf ear toward the concerned calls and letters from directors. (5) There is one company that makes valve-rotor horns, and since they are the only game in town, they now cost 6 times what other brass instruments do...... (6) A request by the Phantom Regiment and Madison Scouts to go to California during the season is refused by VFW/AL...."you will stay in your region until nationals" is the response given. No appeal is available. (7) A corps tries to take the road in school buses with no insurance. On their 1st excursion, they are stopped by police. The director is jailed, and the corps is immediately disbanded. (8) VFW/AL allows the Troopers and Argonne Rebels to travel due to geographic reasons. The other corps sue VFW/AL for granting "special privileges" to these corps..... The other corps prevail. Troopers and Argonne are forced to compete in their region only, and VFW/AL has to fork out much money as a result of the suits. (9) VFW/AL continue to hold their championships in regions all across the country. However, the corps are not set up for long travel....vehicle-wise or budget-wise, and at many of the championships, less than 1/2 of the major competitors are even there......including several of the very best corps........... (10) Not one judge is ever removed for poor performance.......ever.........even though they placed a corps 9th in a caption which they won at every other show that year, including prelims...........that judge has "called the show" at 3 national championships....... Do I believe that DCI was/is the "ultimate drum corps dream"?? No. However, DCI has always been run by the DIRECTORS OF THE COMPETING CORPS, and no major decisions could happen without a vote. It is not "some man" or "some corporation", but a consensus of directors. However, if you believe that VFW/AL was some kind of "competitive Eutopia", I don't think you have a strong argument there, either. I am not happy with all that has happened over the years.....the demise/loss of many great corps, the disturbing shrinkage in the sheer number of corps out there....these are 2 items that bother me greatly. However, I don't believe that you can place the blame solely on DCI, either. Money troubles, membership woes, and unrealistic competitive aspirations have killed many a corps. Right, wrong, or indifferent, the activity has changed immensely. Nobody knows if drum corps would even exist had things stayed the same. However, I still see kids learning life lessons in gyms and on practice fields, and corps that can still light it up on any given night. That keeps me coming back, and I hope that never changes. Yes, every corps begs for money, and it can get old.....however, it could be worse....I can at least SEE what the corps spend the money on, and frankly I am happy that the kids are traveling in decent buses, getting fed well, are covered by insurance, have decent equipment and uniforms.....and have good instruction......at least there is not a ton of money going into some CEO's pocket...........and I can tell you that I think people believe that staff and directors of corps are paid way more than they actually are.............and I see many "kids" become fine young men and women from their drum corps experience, and I think that remains....priceless......... GB game, match and set Mr. McEnroe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Of course you would. You teach HS band. You have a vested and fiscal interest in supporting marching bands. You have for years supported morphing DC into bands on this forum. fiscal interest. LOL. you think many of us that teach make that much money for the hours we devote? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 The consortium of corps governing drum corps is exactly what's wrong with the governing body. If you specifically mean running the "competition", I'm OK with that. But running the activity is not their place. Foxes meet hen-house. Out of curiosity, what do you think would be a better model for running the business end of DCI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Of course you would. You teach HS band. You have a vested and fiscal interest in supporting marching bands. You have for years supported morphing DC into bands on this forum. Drum corps was 'morphing' towards band when you were starting out in 1949. As for 'fiscal' interest...hardly. What I like is to see kids have the chance to march and compete...at least 10 times the number today as had that chance in your day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 there must have been a memo sent out that Morphing would be the word of the year..lol...it's like when judges all use the buzz word for the year..lol There was no memo; the word just morphed into our vocabulary. Since then, the entire activity has been morphing towards a new morphology, one where the past morphs with the present to provide a morphtastic future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cainan Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Lest we forget, without the success of DCI, we would not have competitive drum corps in Europe... DCUK and DCE are stronger than ever with direct support and influence from DCI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piper Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Drum corps was 'morphing' towards band when you were starting out in 1949. As for 'fiscal' interest...hardly. What I like is to see kids have the chance to march and compete...at least 10 times the number today as had that chance in your day. Mike, are you on that bando kick again? Relax man, it's football season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 (edited) What do you mean by everything? Little League baseball, Pop Warner football, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts and many other local youth activities survived. With local support and community involvement local drum corps could have survived. The argument is a moot point, DCI took the direction it did and an activity that once numbered in the multiple hundreds, now has less than forty with eight or nine super corps. Many of those groups are not as strong as they used to be in the 50s/60s at least not in the areas I'm familiar with it. As far as local support, anything that was run or sponosored in the city back in those days is a shell of what it used to be also thanks to the cities collapsing. I'm more familiar with the northeast so I'm remembering city corps like Blessed Sac, St (pick a name) and other church run corps from the city. The churchs, AL/VFW Posts and other city sponsors dropped corps as costs increased and income decreased. No idea what the numbers would be without DCI pushing the tour mode but IMO would be ugly either way. Edited November 20, 2011 by JimF-LowBari 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Let me make this clear...I have been "off my meds" for 5 years now, and was not "drunk" at the time I posted the DCI Birthday message. But some of you will always consider me an ########. Hey, I can live with that. But... Over the past few years I've spoken with many of you Classics, Alumni, and people from other BITD Corps who THINK what I SAY! In short, most of the men I marched with had neither the Talent nor Finances to make it in the current DCI "Activity". What we did have was an open door policy that excluded noone. What was once a Veterans Youth Activity for anyone who wished to participate has become Show Business; let me emphasize BUSINESS, a place to where, largely (but not all) wealthy Music/Arts students can flesh out their resumes (and never look back). Check YOUR Corps Alumni and see how many post-2001 FMMs remain active. I wish this were only my opinion, but I believe facts bear me out. Corps Directors making 6 figure salaries? DCI Staff ditto, "Designers/Caption Instructors" getting fat while the Corps sleeps on gym floors? Hell, in '61 we stayed at a beachfront HOTEL in Bal Harbor for VFW Nationals, '63 in a really decent MOTEL in Seattle after getting a chartered ride to & from on the Burlington Northern RAILROAD. Understand this, I've come to grips with the innovations now an integral part of DCI performances. While I didn't always agree with them I see now how beautifully they can enhance a performance. "Mad World" & "XtraaordinarY" wouldn't have worked at all without them. Still, I maintain, DCI has become a fat, greedy entity, feeding a select group of so-called "Adults" living off the sweat & blood of the "Kids". Disagree all you want, but don't lower yourselves to the point where you dismiss my beliefs as the Rantings of an under medicated drunk. And I still believe that The Cavaliers decision to join the G7 Insurrection, ("to keep an eye on the competition") while tactically wise, was strategically much more disrespectful to DCI than I could ever dream of being. Can you say "Combine" within the Combine? I wish you all the very best. P.S. ####### rhymes with glass pole First, you state that today corps is not open to any kid with the desire to march.....I would agree with you that it is hard, if not impossible, for a kid to walk into a rehearsal at a top 17 program with little or no skill and expect to earn a spot. Agreed. However, most corps will let them stay for an entire camp or more, experience it, and find out what they need to be able to do. I had a 15 year old band kid show up to try out for a champion corps (snare). He wasn't even close the 1st year, but got a taste of it. He came back the next year.....we took 9 and he came in 11th. Again, didn't make it. He came back a 3rd year....made it (talk about learning persistence), and won DCI. I do agree that it is expensive to march these days.....however, many corps have fundraising opportunities and plans to make things possible. If you can figure out a way to make it way cheaper, I am sure many are all ears. Some corps, below 17th, and most of the Open class corps, WILL take anybody, train them from ground up, and give them a spot somewhere in the corps......no different than 1950. There are senior corps who do the same thing. Yep, it costs more today, as does everything, and that corps may be further away. Drum Corps did not create our economy. Your comments about huge salaries for directors and staff is laughable. If it were true, why do most staff members have other jobs outside of drum corps?? This may stun you, but most of the staff on tour are also sleeping on the floor somewhere in that school. "Adults living off the sweat of kids"?? Out of curiosity, what percentage of a corps entire income do you believe is going to pay staff? I am impressed that you stayed at a nice hotel in 61 and 63........you complain about $$$, but you want the "kids" to stay in hotels???? DCI becoming fat economically? Not by a long shot..........There are probably only a handful of designers or arrangers who make a living off of the activity, and that is only because they are writing for multiple corps, doing other functions, and still barely scraping by......not "fat cats" by a long shot.... I'm actually with you on the G7 thing............and I think it will go away as fast as it came..............I think you are partially right that SOME people marching today are a bit "self serving", with an interest in padding the resume.....however, I would hope that 14 hour days and long bus rides may develop some unity and loyalty and a bit more character.....at least with a majority......and that they will "give back" someday when they are able........and in today's economy, unfortunately, that is taking longer. I defend your right to your opinions, but I do have to say that I believe some of your perceptions may not be accurate. Frankly, I hope that the "show business" of drum corps is around for another 40 years (and becomes more entertaining)........ GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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