Jeff Ream Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Critics said the same thing about Coltrane and Davis. Most melody is nearly an involuntary reaction, filled with balance, expectation and emotional resolve (probably what you're referring to)......but some isn't. which is why i dont buy their stuff. but, they also arent on the bill with 11 other acts I want to see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I've been dumped into usually Box D or E, but I'm very firmly in Box "C" here. I love some of their shows, (00,08,97,98,95,90) all favorites of mine, but they do put out shows that I really just don't enjoy, sometimes it's the musical choices, sometimes it's the visual program, or the uniform design. There's just something in there that makes me not enjoy the show. But do I hate BD? Never could I say that. Do I feel some feelings of rivalry, and competition? For sure, but that's just one of those things in DCI. But I have nothing but the utmost respect for the Blue Devils, and everything that they do. And I've had many good conversations with some of their alums on here, they're usually on the level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It's bizarre that this is hard for so many on DCP to get. If Cadets are in the lead all season for the next several years....they will catch hell, and the criticisms will be tailored to say anything but your point here. Cadets will catch flack because of their director. In fact they did last year. Hell look at what they got 05-08 and they won once in those 4 years. however, even going back to the RAMD days, when the Cavies had their run from 00-04 with the tie in 00, 1st in 01/02, what..2nd 03 and 1st in 04....they never got what BD has the last few years. the corps performs like few. the design team designs shows that turns off many fans. there's really not much more to it no matter how hard you try to dig 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Cadets received a lot more grief for their non-championship shows from 2006-2008 than their 2005 production. That was real hate of course, not the mostly make-believe hate faced by the Blue Devils. It seems like some of the fading violets complaining about "hate" in this thread would shrivel up and die if they received 1/8th of the venom dished out to the Cadets in those years on DCP and elsewhere. And astoundingly enough, the Cavies were more dominant in the early 2000s than BD was in the late 2000s, and were wildly popular the entire time, and remain so, among most segments of fans. I'm sorry, but the shows are unequivocally the most important factor when deciding the popularity of a corps. When we talk about hate directed at BD, we're talking about two different groups of people. There are a fair number of people who really, truly despise BD because offenses committed by that corps, real or imagined, typically from when the hater marched. Winning exacerbates that hate, but doesn't cause it. These are your boo-birds. There is a much larger proportion that simply dislikes the shows, and that become a bit a annoyed when they keep winning. Not hatred. Annoyance. I've loved SCV's two most recent shows, but I can see why they're not popular among many fans. Most other people who love these shows have the same understanding. I've also enjoyed BD the last few years, loved 2010, but I can understand why BD and these shows are not loved by one and all without bringing hatred or jealousy into the equation. It would be awesome if my fellow BD fans could do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 No, it's quite easy to measure. Really. Not in a precise way, but it's very simple to come to a rough understanding of who the audience likes and dislikes, and why. The tiny handful of people that I saw sitting with their hands over their ears in 2010, and who later booed during the scores . . . they hate BD. The far larger number of people who sat silent and bemused at the end of the same performance simply disliked the shows. Eminently measurable. Where you venture into the unmeasurable is when you claim that people dislike BD because they win all the time . . . how exactly have you reached that conclusion? You do realize this, right? When you accuse people of measuring the unmeasurable you do realize you routinely engage in generalizations that are far wilder and even more unfounded? I know the chances of this getting through to you are slim at best, but some sort of acknowledgment or denial would be appreciated. I've followed DCI for a while now. Audiences cheer for the shows they like, and don't cheer for the ones they dislike. When Cavies capped off a undefeated season in 2002, completed a three-peat, and broke the high score record (that had been set by arguably the most beloved show in DCI history), the audience went ape-#### for them. Cadets and even BD enjoyed a good deal of popularity in earlier periods of dominance. And regional favoritism and corps homerism were far stronger in those days. That wasn't the case in this latest BD dynasty. What could possibly account for the difference? thank you for mentioning 02. I hated that show and thought it was wildly over rated. I didnt called a hater nor was I told my intelligence was lacking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 So then you do not believe that BD got improved crowd approval last season because the crowd felt good about where BD was placing? It seemed to me the only time that the crowd didn't approve of BD last season were the two shows going into finals when BD won the shows... Everything was fine when BD was in 3rd anf 4th... It was when they snuck back into 2nd that things got heated up again. Anyone else recall this? last year was the best reaction I saw them get in Allentown in years...and they won Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifuarian Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) You're calling these generalizations? Some people do dislike BD, some people do dislike corps that win, etc... Of course they're not generalizations. That's how I've been putting it for the past year or so. When you say "Most people who don't like BD don't like em because they win all the time," it's a generalization. When you say "The corps that wins is always hated," it's a generalization, and an obviously false one to anybody that's followed DCI for longer than, say, four years. I know you'll dance around this, but everyone reading this thread - you included - knows good and well these generalizations have been either stated openly or implied by you and a couple of others since 2010. ...and some do dislike BD's shows, but none of these are measurable, profound or completely accurate and certainly can't be used as a metric to define any corps or their show. So don't do it. No. You most certainly can measure how well shows are liked. It's rough and imperfect, but you can get a good idea. Homerism exists, but DCI audiences are by and large very, very willing to give it up to those who they feel deserve it, regardless of personal allegiance. What is unmeasurable is the number of people who hate a corps because they win. Utterly impossible to do. Since we're all so keen on measurement and facts and whatnot I wouldn't even bring it up as a factor when determining why a corps is popular or unpopular. Because beyond being unprovable it's also insulting. And remember, we're not talking about hate, we're talking about popularity. BD is not really hated. Cadets 2005-8 received a lot of hate. Not BD 2007 or 2008 through whenever. What they've received can only be labeled as "bemusement". And really they weren't that unpopular at all in 2011. It's just that Cadets, Cavies, Regiment, Crown, and Scouts got a little more love. Edited January 13, 2012 by Rifuarian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifuarian Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 thank you for mentioning 02. I hated that show and thought it was wildly over rated. I didnt called a hater nor was I told my intelligence was lacking I wasn't crazy about Cavies 02 either. No one thought I was an idiot . . . they just thought I was insane. In fact I love BD pretty much every year, and I've only enjoyed 2000s era Cavies a couple of times. Yet I seem to spend a lot of time on these BD "hate" threads. Need to get my DCP priorities straightened out. I guess BD's honk brigade is just a lot more engaging than the Cavaliers'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) A. Some people like BD because they frequently win. B. Some people always like BD regardless of their program. C. Some people like BD but sometimes don't enjoy their program. D. Some people don't like BD regardless of their program. E. Some people don't like BD because they frequently win. This list is not exhaustive or complete. I think what most people find objectionable about Plan's argument is that he seems to want to shove nearly everyone who doesn't agree with his assessment of a BD production into bin (E). Personally I'm in bin ©. See how that works. *I* get to decide how I feel. It's pretty cool. You can decide how you feel too! It's a wonderful world. I'm decidedly in category "C" as well. You see, every corps has shows that I don't **like**. Gasp, even the corps I marched in has several shows I don't like! It doesn't mean I'm a hater! It means they have a show I don't like. I know, strange.... Edited January 13, 2012 by jjeffeory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindap Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I wasn't crazy about Cavies 02 either. No one thought I was an idiot . . . they just thought I was insane. In fact I love BD pretty much every year, and I've only enjoyed 2000s era Cavies a couple of times. Yet I seem to spend a lot of time on these BD "hate" threads. Need to get my DCP priorities straightened out. I guess BD's honk brigade is just a lot more engaging than the Cavaliers'. I hate the word hate! I started drum corps in 68 and marched 10 years, did winter guard 10 too. I saw BD in 76 and was in awe. I was in Miami 1983 wow too. I finally went to semis and finals in 2010. Cavaliers had a better performance finals night imo. Personally, I listen to CDs at work while I work and listen to DCI. I know what I like, can't tell you why I like what I like, I just listen once and listen again to a few, including BD :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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