BRASSO Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) First off, there is no way to measure this. How do you parse out who is a homer for another corps that is "annoyed" and who is a fan that dislikes BD's show? Utterly unmeasurable. While " reading an audience response" to a a show performance is by no means an exact science, I think most people can determine how well a show has been received by an audience. Plus, the show is performed at many geographical locations throughout the year, so an overall consensus can be arrived at as to whether or not the show was a hit or not that year with audiences. Thats not true just with BD, but its also true with other Corps shows for that year as well. When we attribute a tepid crowd response to a Corps show across multiple audiences, among a cross section of the country, to "envy because the Corps has won a lot of DCI Titles", we do a disservice to national audiences that are attempting to provide show feedback to the Corps ( any Corps for that matter ) but the signals are missed because the general tepid audience reaction coast to coast is incorrectly attributed to " lots of DCI Titles won " by that Corps. That would be a mistake, imo. That said, it likewise would be incorrect to assume that all Corps care equally what audiences think of their Corps show in any given year too. Edited January 12, 2012 by BRASSO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) If you believe that a crowds response to a show at the competion of the performance is effected by what we read on here, than you give national audiences very little credit to determine for themselves at the competion of the performance if they liked the Corps show or not. What people post on DCP has no influence at all on whether I personally enjoyed a Corps show or not. That said, is YOUR personal enjoyment level of a Corps show determined by what you might have read on here ? And if so,... why ? If you believe that people DON'T use what they read in the media ( news, TV, DCP, blogs ) to help them formulate an opinion on something in conjunction with the live performance, then you give very little credit to all the scientific data on marketing and group think that's being spewed forth and utilized in business, academia, and government. When you do a Google search on "drum corps", DCP is the 3rd highest ranked item on the list. Social media has pushed that result this high. Lots of people are coming here to get their drum corps news, opinions, etc. I give audiences plenty of credit, but to deny that DCP isn't relevant is naive! If I read a bunch of lousy reviews about a show on here, or a bunch of shows, I may not even BOTHER attending a show if several over those shows are in one place at the same time. Conversely, if I hear about a bunch of great shows, and those corps are going to be at a particular show that is maybe a little far for me to travel, I may use the information to decide that I just gotta go that extra mile and see these corps! In that sense, DCP provides valuable insight into whether or not I even give a show a chance. It's sort of like a movie... So, DCP doesn't pwn me. I still decide to like or dislike a show based upon seeing it, but DCP is a tool that we all use in our relationship to the drum corps world. Continuing the movie analogy... I know people who will not see a movie if Tom Cruise or John Travolta is in it... So, the movie may be the best movie on the Earth, but if they read a review from Rotten Tomatoes that says the latest MI movie, for instance, with Tom Cruise is awesome, they still will not see it. I have another friend who thinks the sun rises and sets around Keanu Reeves movies. He could read a review from Rotten Tomatoes telling him that "Speed" with Keanu was the biggest pile of garbage on the planet. They will go see it anyway, because Keanu is in it and they love all Keanu movies... So for them, it doesn't matter what the news says. The point of that was that DCP provides important information to the drum corps fan. Some people disregard it's importance and will do what they will do. Other people will take the bits and pieces of it that are useful for them and go from there. Today's younger people are very connected and informed about the things they enjoy. They are really quite sophisticated. If you think that they do NOT read DCP in addition to talking to their friends and FB, then YOU are fooling yourself. Edited January 12, 2012 by jjeffeory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddyt Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Is their show design a factor....of course...but it is so much more about dominance! Just about equal parts, IMO. Look... any stretch of dominance in this activity will lead to scrutiny and nit-picking from those wanting someone else on top. Naysayers will preach how the corps needs to do more of this or doesn't do enough of that. This is now the widely accepted DCP definition of "hate". BD gets more "hate", not only because they're successful, but because they're successful with shows that leave many folks flat. People will therefore scrutinize, nitpick, and naysay even more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) While " reading an audience response" to a a show performance is by no means an exact science, I think most people can determine how well a show has been received by an audience. Plus, the show is performed at many geographical locations throughout the year, so an overall consensus can be arrived at as to whether or not the show was a hit or not that year with audiences. That just not true just with BD, but its true with other Corps shows for that year as well. When we atrribute a tepid crowd response to a Corps show across multiple audiences, among a cross section of the country to "envy because the Corps has won a lot of DCI Titles", we do a disservice to national audiences that are attemting to provide show feedback to the Corps ( any Corps for that matter ) but the signals are missed because the tepid audience reation coast to coas is incorrectly attributed to " lots of DCI Titles won " by that Corps. Well then, all the comments (thousands of them) on DCP concerning "the audience booing the scores and not the corps" is crap! Brasso, there is no way in hell that you nor I can quantify crowd reaction and give it meaning. Boo's post was entirely accurate and no effort to assign outcomes to a crowd's reaction can ever be definitive....it's only an opinion. What was the feedback the audience was providing to Star of Indiana 93? Clear? One voice? Edited January 12, 2012 by Plan9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Well then, all the comments (thousands of them) on DCP concerning "the audience booing the scores and not the corps" is crap! Brasso, there is no way in hell that you nor I can quantify crowd reaction and give it meaning. Well, in that case, there is no way that you can extrapolate widespread "hate" for BD based on DCP posts that represent less than 0.01% of the total audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Well, in that case, there is no way that you can extrapolate widespread "hate" for BD based on DCP posts that represent less than 0.01% of the total audience. Not sure where you're going with this comment. Brasso was suggesting the audience reaction is meant for the corps as a feedback. And for some time many on DCP have suggested that booing is meant for the scores....not the corps....that was my only point. And I am not one to use the word "hate" .....it's such an ugly word, so non-descriptive and final. And I did not extrapolate "widespread" anything. I believe that there is a giant stew of different opinions concerning BD (and other corps) on DCP. No clear outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifuarian Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) First off, there is no way to measure this. How do you parse out who is a homer for another corps that is "annoyed" and who is a fan that dislikes BD's show? Utterly unmeasurable. I can understand (as you) why some disliked 2010 so vociferously....it was edgy and avante garde but it was also pretty frickin' amazing at every level. And I completely agree with your last statement (underlined). As for me, we could have all just said, "BD beat everyone for 2 years, some liked their shows....some did not".....and leave the unmeasurable alone. No, it's quite easy to measure. Really. Not in a precise way, but it's very simple to come to a rough understanding of who the audience likes and dislikes, and why. The tiny handful of people that I saw sitting with their hands over their ears in 2010, and who later booed during the scores . . . they hate BD. The far larger number of people who sat silent and bemused at the end of the same performance simply disliked the shows. Eminently measurable. Where you venture into the unmeasurable is when you claim that people dislike BD because they win all the time . . . how exactly have you reached that conclusion? You do realize this, right? When you accuse people of measuring the unmeasurable you do realize you routinely engage in generalizations that are far wilder and even more unfounded? I know the chances of this getting through to you are slim at best, but some sort of acknowledgment or denial would be appreciated. I've followed DCI for a while now. Audiences cheer for the shows they like, and don't cheer for the ones they dislike. When Cavies capped off a undefeated season in 2002, completed a three-peat, and broke the high score record (that had been set by arguably the most beloved show in DCI history), the audience went ape-#### for them. Cadets and even BD enjoyed a good deal of popularity in earlier periods of dominance. And regional favoritism and corps homerism were far stronger in those days. That wasn't the case in this latest BD dynasty. What could possibly account for the difference? Edited January 12, 2012 by Rifuarian 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bari Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 BD 's response is not limited to DCP'ers. This board represents less than the tiniest sliver percentage of fans that Corps performs before in any given year. It is relatively easy to determine ( imo ) an audience response levels to a show performance. And to track the similarities or dissimilarities of audience response to a show that is performed throughout a season across many sections of the country, (quite apart from the home show of the Corps. too) BD's response on the part of national audiences is commensurate not with their previous placements, but how their particular show that particular nite resonated with the audience. If an audience gives a tepid response at the completion of the show performance it would be folly to believe that it has anything to do with what is posted on DCP or attribute it to placement envy of winning past DCI Titles. No, it would be more beneficial to attribute a tepid crowd responce to other than placement. For example, BD received a better audience reception from coast to coast to this years 2nd place show than they did the previous year when they went undefeated on their way to winning the DCI Title. And what was commented on here on DCP had no effect whatsoever on either years audience receptions to BD's shows in these last 2 years. So then you do not believe that BD got improved crowd approval last season because the crowd felt good about where BD was placing? It seemed to me the only time that the crowd didn't approve of BD last season were the two shows going into finals when BD won the shows... Everything was fine when BD was in 3rd anf 4th... It was when they snuck back into 2nd that things got heated up again. Anyone else recall this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Not sure where you're going with this comment. Brasso was suggesting the audience reaction is meant for the corps as a feedback. And for some time many on DCP have suggested that booing is meant for the scores....not the corps....that was my only point. And I am not one to use the word "hate" .....it's such an ugly word, so non-descriptive and final. And I did not extrapolate "widespread" anything. I believe that there is a giant stew of different opinions concerning BD (and other corps) on DCP. No clear outcome. To clarify, I didn't mean "you" specifically, so let me rephrase. Your post suggested we can't "quantify crowd reaction and give it meaning". But that's what the original topic of this thread is. If we can't quantify it as observed from thousands of people in stadiums, then we certainly can't quantify it from a few people's DCP posts. Therefore, none of us can say whether any corps is "hated" more or less than any other corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 To clarify, I didn't mean "you" specifically, so let me rephrase. Your post suggested we can't "quantify crowd reaction and give it meaning". But that's what the original topic of this thread is. If we can't quantify it as observed from thousands of people in stadiums, then we certainly can't quantify it from a few people's DCP posts. Therefore, none of us can say whether any corps is "hated" more or less than any other corps. Put that way....I agree. In fact, as Boo suggests...any corps that wins alot is bound to be scowled at or worse. And it's very mobile, no one corps is targeted. The situation with BD2010 however was made worse by the type of production they put on the field, which was unlike anything before (musically and visually). That is why I compare it so often to SOI93. Not the show itself, but it's edginess, SOI's recent dominance and the crowd reaction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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