fatbrassboy Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I get the feeling everyone wants BD to be 88 Suncoast Sound. A bit more balanced yet still cerebral, thought provoking and demanding as they already are. This was a controversial show back then .. but enjoyed by most. It was dirty as sin, but a great show nonetheless. Maybe it's just me thinking that. If BD's talent did a show like 88 Suncoast .. they would still win. I think in the end, it would make the fans who want a more conventional drill design a bit more happy. Not that Suncoasts drill that year was conventional for the time .. but it's accepted now. What happens 20 years from now when '12 BD's design is considered conventional? What will fans be asking for then? So I guess the real question is this: How do the judges sheets keep up with current trends and how important is audience engagement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 So I guess the real question is this: How do the judges sheets keep up with current trends and how important is audience engagement? Audience engagement is very important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I get the feeling everyone wants BD to be 88 Suncoast Sound. A bit more balanced yet still cerebral, thought provoking and demanding as they already are. This was a controversial show back then .. but enjoyed by most. It was dirty as sin, but a great show nonetheless. Maybe it's just me thinking that. If BD's talent did a show like 88 Suncoast .. they would still win. I think in the end, it would make the fans who want a more conventional drill design a bit more happy. Not that Suncoasts drill that year was conventional for the time .. but it's accepted now. What happens 20 years from now when '12 BD's design is considered conventional? What will fans be asking for then? Times change, conventional wisdom changes, design changes, what's considered demand changes .... it's nice to have what we know ... with a splash of what we don't get to challenge us. What most are complaining about is that they don't get it at all .. they're being challenged TOO MUCH. It's more a statement about themselves than the corps. Go back and watch the feed several times. Watch them move .. listen to them play ... take a deeper look. Change your mindset to being in the 10th row .. or the upper deck .. or in the box with each read. This is the first time most of us have seen BD's show ... and they heard what they didn't want to hear .. saw what they didn't want to see .. and way too much of it. With that .. they've written it off as more DCI BS. C'mon people .. challenge yourselves a little bit. When Star won I remember the day after...wow people moaning and leaving the activity.........NOW Look how people consider what Star was......including many who disliked them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) So what is it that drives peeps crazy about what the Blue Devils are doing? In general, there are 2 philosophies at odds with each other. I think... Team A - These peeps are more drill conscious with the emphasis being on what THEY have been taught, experienced, and genuinely believe as demand/content. High velocity whiplash drill. Forms. Playing while executing this physically demanding drill. It might be dirtier but the overall effect is worth sacrificing a little clarity. A little clarity. These peeps are going to call BS on the drill BD does. They do NOT consider what BD is doing to be demanding. Read the thread - they say it plenty of times. Why do they do this? Because, TO THEM, it isn't demanding. They laugh loudly when peeps say BD could march a show like Crowns 2012 show. Is it true? Maybe. Maybe not. We may never know. Team B - These peeps tout the more intellectual aspect of BD programing. That's what THEY have been taught, experienced, and genuinely believe. They focus on the individual performer. The demands placed on them. They proclaim that the music and drill being clean is a result of superior programing. Layering. Excellent execution. They state that they could march a high velocity drill but their show is so superior in programming that they don't need to. Why fly around the field when it isn't needed. The sheets don't say it is. Who's right? Trick question... there's no right answer - just preference. Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. To me it has nothing to do with demand or high velocity drill... BD has many parts of their show that don't have high amounts of cencronicisty. Or a high number of people doing exactly the same thing/technique/drill at exactly the same time. this also carries into the idea that no caption takes this into account. The forms that BD chooses to do are ground in a lack of order and their show themes always reflect this. Is it no wonder that the one recent year they decide to pull away from "disorder" themed shows that they didnt win? It's clear to me that BD does not do many forms that require even spacing and intervals from every member of the hornline. There is no visual risk in their show. If a judge were to point out a messy interval it could be argued that it was supposed to be that way. With BD there is not a fine line between what is "clean" and what "dirty" unlike every other DCI corps. It's because of the way they design their shows. And I think we really need to train judges to notice what that line is and if that line is blurry then what's being done should not be given as much credit. Edited July 18, 2012 by charlie1223 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatbrassboy Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Audience engagement is very important. I am in total agreement with you, but DCI doesn't seem to be too interested in posting that part of the recap sheet (the back). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 That's what I don't get ... fans just seem to politely applaud the Blue Devils. Big hands all around for Crown and Madison at the two show's I've been to. With the new judge's sheets with the emphasis on entertainment this year, I don't see how BD is winning all these shows by the wide margin in ALL captions that they are. Ok, I'd give them several of the captions, but all of them? I get that the judges have been trained by Michael Cesanario, but Mike is this going the way you thought it would? Ok, BD is clean, but come on judges a clean sweep in ALL captions. IMO there are several corps that are out entertaining BD this year. With the new scoring sheets how can you ignore the fan reactions? Of course this is DCI and judging has been messed up for a long time! Mike I hope you can get your money back on that new score sheet you sold … it's a FAIL in my book. if you listen to Cesario on the podcasts, he raved about BD's show Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sportster Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I really enjoyed Star and came close to joining them at one point but wasn't enthralled with playing Disney's 'zippidy do dah' lol. They were incredible in 91' and 93' and different, yet engaging. Yet many hated them out of jealousy for their millionaire owner and his deep pockets and everything new and shiny. I understand that to a point but I really believe they were booed right out of the activity. I was there at 93' finals and it was ugly for them. I was pretty ticked the way people were acting. I don't like BD's show but I would NEVER boo them or act like some do. Those kids are playing their hearts out regardless of whether it's a enjoyable show or a head scratching mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 With that kind of statement, it tells me two things; you are young, and you don't know what drum corps is really about from a historical perspective. The corps I first fell in love with was the Santa Clara Vanguard in 1981, Young Person's Guide to Drum Corps version. When all the other top corps of the era were power corps trying to melt your face off with each song, the Vanguard went its own way and was the finesse corps of the day, probably the 4th-6th loudest corps that year, but man they were unbelievable. All you could do as a fan and watch with AWE the precision of their marching and playing. This was the DCI world champion, doing it their way, not everybody else's way. Drum corps is now, and always has been exactly what it means to EACH and EVERY viewer, for who they are, and where they are in their life. That's why I liked simplistic bubble gum music as a child (think Beatles, I want to hold your hand), and now I like jazz and classical. I've grown musically as a person as the years have gone by. I didn't always like Blue Devils. To be honest, they were way ahead of me where I was as a young person, back in the day. Now, they offer new musical selections that make me grow as as a fan, as I learn and enjoy things I never knew before. Just as a person like yourself will grow as well, if I'm correct about your love for drum corps and your passion. Timing is everything, my young friend. except he said he's old school. oh and when horn lines did try to peel everyones face off, attendance was higher....just sayin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 So I guess the real question is this: How do the judges sheets keep up with current trends and how important is audience engagement? I think the judges keep up with current trends more than the sheets do .. and they judge and award numbers based on their interpretation of what SHOULD be awarded in today's activity rather than what that piece of paper says. For better or worse (sometimes and in the current state of things .. I think it's out of hand). Personally, I'm fairly engaged with BD's show. That's hard for my to gulp down and say. I'm giving the show a real read .. and proper chance for my brain to digest it. The more I watch it .. the more I like it. Will I ever love it? Maybe in 20 years. I feel like the more conventional corps (Crown, SCV, Scouts, heck most of the top 15) are more appealing to me and I will have a stronger attachment to most of them ... but I don't hate this BD show. I don't think it's a spit in the face of DCI and drum corps fans. Not in the slightest. The sampling is a bit over the top but that can be corrected should they choose to do so. Sports have fair weather fans. I'm a fair weather fan of BD in the non traditional sense. They're always good ... and I'm not always a fan .. but I am a fan of them when I can get behind what they're doing. I can really get behind them when they're stupid awesome and have masterpiece shows (Most of the 80's and early 90's). They can win and I hate the show. They can be 3rd and I think it's the best show of all time. Regardless, I always give them a chance...... I even watched Dance Derby 3 or 4 times before I shredded that DVD. Just sayin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 You are correct. The proper terminology is "Audience Engagement". http://issuu.com/dru...ets_full_set/21 you can engage even if they are not throwing babies. there's many ways to engage an audience. granted this, like every BD show since 08 isn't my cup of tea, but it can and does engage many Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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