GUARDLING Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 (edited) Don't forget, it would be the corps that set up the rules...I don't see corps staffs wanting to go backwards from where they are today just to remain "as is" in the traditional division. I can see them not wanting to add WW, strings, choirs, etc...that the new division would permit, but that doesn't mean they want to get rid of elements they have wanted for a long time, and were just recently implemented. im with ya Mike , I dont know a staff out there that want MORE confines, most want less, Im considered old ( ugh, when did that happen ) and I dont want to go to any rules and anything that would bind me . I love some traditional styles BUT dont want to held back. Im not saying we need to do everything BUT as i said I think I know most staffs and it would be a real hard sell..then the other issue of kids..tell a kid do you want to be in a traditional corps ( depends how far back you wanna go ) or a corps with less boundries....well I know where I would go and most kids I teach.......thats not to say they wouldnt want to be in a crown or a bd or a PR or cadets but I dont think those corps minus what they did this year, kids wouldnt want less.....kids today ( as we did ) want more and more not less . Edited August 15, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 (edited) if were having some of each in a show..then whats the difference? The " difference " is that Corps shows will be judged on what matters most to them in their thought process in the construction of their shows. No longer would Corps be penalized and hurt for an Avant Garde show... and no longer would a Corps that puts audience appeal first be hurt on the judging sheets in that Division. Judges would have an EASIER time judging as they would not be asked to judge an Avant Garde type show after witnessing a Traditional Based, audience friendly show. These types of Corps shows are generally the hardest to judge right now as it is. Narrowing the chasm would make it easier for judges to judge Corps.. not harder in my view. Fans would all benefit as they will have access to both the Avant Garde Division.. and the Traditional Division or one or the other if they so desired. At Championships, it would be even more exciting as we'd have the 2 Divisions with 2 separate Champions for each Division.. the Avart Garde Division Champion and the Traditional Division Champion. Everybody's happy. Both Champions are rewarded for what they set out to do. Edited August 15, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 (edited) The " difference " is that Corps shows will be judged on what matters most to them in their thought process in the construction of their shows. No longer would Corps be penalized and hurt for an Avant Garde show... and no longer would a Corps that puts audience appeal first be hurt on the judging sheets in that Division. Judges would have an EASIER time judging as they would not be asked to judge an Avant Garde type show after witnessing a Traditional Based, audience friendly show. These types of Corps shows are generally the hardest to judge right now as it is. Narrowing the chasm would make it easier for judges to judge Corps.. not harder in my view. Fans would all benefit as they will have access to both the Avant Garde Division.. and the Traditional Division or one or the other if they so desired. At Championships, it would be even more exciting as we'd have the 2 Divisions with 2 separate Champions for each Division.. the Avart Garde Division Champion and the Traditional Division Champion. Everybody's happy. Both Champions are rewarded for what they set out to do. ok I will respectfully disagree..Ive seen all these types of things in Band circuits a few places in the country...we all kinda shake our heads there and say OMG lets have a division for who uses a certain color and who doesnt next. I also dont think corps get penalized for being one or the other BD didnt win in 2011 but I do think some people think so but it usually because THEIR choice of a winner ....didnt.........either way I dont see corps wanting this but ya never know I guess.......never say never Edited August 15, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 (edited) im with ya Mike , I dont know a staff out there that want MORE confines, most want less, Im considered old ( ugh, when did that happen ) and I dont want to go to any rules and anything that would bind me . Who is talking about " confines " ? Star of Indiana lost in 1993 and decided to scap their type of DCI shows in hopes of winning another DCI Title and opted instead to leave DCI and start their own tradition based theatre Drum Corps themed show that took all the traditional, appealing aspects of Drum Corps the previous 20 years and turned it into an award winning international success for over 15 years. There is nothing " confining " about putting together an appealing audience friendly show. I'm not quite sure where you think that a Tradition based show is " confining " ? Did the Star of Indiana staff that created " BLAST " believe that their construction of the tradition based Drum Corps show " BLAST "was confining " ? I believe that they felt a sense of LIBERATION more than anything else. I believe that its possible that Kurchner and Mason, 2 brilliant DCI music composers feel " confined " by DCI right NOW. So I really don't know why you believe that a Tradition based Traditional Division woould be " confining " at all. If anything, it would be LIBERATING... for both Corps, staffs and fans alike. And those that want a BD type shows can have that as well. And the BD fans can have that. And performers can have that as well as staffs that want to push the envelope into the wild blue yonder with ( as Mike wants ) " anything goes " on the DCI field of competition. Edited August 15, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 The " difference " is that Corps shows will be judged on what matters most to them in their thought process in the construction of their shows. No longer would Corps be penalized and hurt for an Avant Garde show... and no longer would a Corps that puts audience appeal first be hurt on the judging sheets in that Division. Judges would have an EASIER time judging as they would not be asked to judge an Avant Garde type show after witnessing a Traditional Based, audience friendly show. These types of Corps shows are generally the hardest to judge right now as it is. Narrowing the chasm would make it easier for judges to judge Corps.. not harder in my view. Fans would all benefit as they will have access to both the Avant Garde Division.. and the Traditional Division or one or the other if they so desired. At Championships, it would be even more exciting as we'd have the 2 Divisions with 2 separate Champions for each Division.. the Avart Garde Division Champion and the Traditional Division Champion. Everybody's happy. Both Champions are rewarded for what they set out to do. I thought the origin of this thread was more based on what types of equipment would be legal...from a new division with anything (like MB today) to a 'traditional' division, whatever that means...hence my post about trying to define what a 'traditional division might be....esp here in DCP. kind of like herding cats. MHO is that a traditional division would be the current WC division, with the new one having no limits on instruments or size at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 (edited) Who is talking about " confines " ? Star of Indiana lost in 1993 and decided to scap their type of DCI shows in hopes of winning another DCI Title and opted instead to leave DCI and start their own tradition based theatre Drum Corps themed show that took all the traditional, appealing aspects of Drum Corps the previous 20 years and turned it into an award winning international success for over 15 years. There is nothing " confining " about putting together an appealing audience friendly show. I'm not quite sure where you think that a Tradition based show is " confining " ? Did the Star of Indiana staff that created " BLAST " believe that their construction of the tradition based Drum Corps show " BLAST "was confining " ? I believe that they felt a sense of LIBERATION more than anything else. I believe that its possible that Kurchner and Mason, 2 brilliant DCI music composers feel " confined " by DCI right NOW. So I really don't know why you believe that a Tradition based Traditional Division woould be " confining " at all. If anything, it would be LIBERATING... for both Corps, staffs and fans alike. And those that want a BD type shows can have that as well. And the BD fans can have that. And performers can have that as well as staffs that want to push the envelope into the wild blue yonder with ( as Mike wants ) " anything goes " on the DCI field of competition. maybe Im just not getting the point of it all...we already have " traditional " as well as Avante Garde....seems all you saying is give each a toy to win..................which is very unlikely..but like i said never say never....I do think in the next few years some big changes will take place which of course will cause a fire storm on all sides...lol......just as drum corps always has Edited August 15, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I thought the origin of this thread was more based on what types of equipment would be legal...from a new division with anything (like MB today) to a 'traditional' division, whatever that means...hence my post about trying to define what a 'traditional division might be....esp here in DCP. kind of like herding cats. MHO is that a traditional division would be the current WC division, with the new one having no limits on instruments or size at all. now that would be a different story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 (edited) I thought the origin of this thread was more based on what types of equipment would be legal...from a new division with anything (like MB today) to a 'traditional' division, whatever that means...hence my post about trying to define what a 'traditional division might be....esp here in DCP. kind of like herding cats. MHO is that a traditional division would be the current WC division, with the new one having no limits on instruments or size at all. I'd be perfectly on board with this too, Mike. But no crossover. For example, If David Gibbs at BD wants to do( for example ) a show utilizing performers playing woodwinds on roller skates doing quick spins and high velocity moves in Dada like costumes on the field then he does so with BD in the Avant Garde Division of DCI. But he leaves the current Tradition based Drum Corps Division to go and do so.He can't have both we tell Gibbs and BD. Likewise, if Corps Directiors decide to scrap for use things they believe have been a bust in DCI they get to scrap it and ban it in the Tradition based Drum Corps Division should they decide to do so. If they believe the required stuff or whatever are " confining" they get to scrap it if they so vote to do so in this Division. If some want it still, they get Gibbs and others on board and they move over to the " Anything Goes " Division of yours. They can even be allowed to change the name from " Drum Corps " to whatever they want there, Mike. I might even recommend that they do so. This way we get an Avant Garde Division of " Anything is Allowed " and a Traditional Drum Corps Division that makes choices that are more in line with their thinking re. what Drum Corps should be. Edited August 15, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 Don't forget, it would be the corps that set up the rules...I don't see corps staffs wanting to go backwards from where they are today just to remain "as is" in the traditional division. I can see them not wanting to add WW, strings, choirs, etc...that the new division would permit, but that doesn't mean they want to get rid of elements they have wanted for a long time, and were just recently implemented. ACTUALLY... corps themselves need to get out of the rule game. that is a major issue today (all time), the want what they want and like spoiled brats they get it. DCI should be a good parent and have the guts to say NO. Or let's state it another way - The criminals are making the laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 ACTUALLY... corps themselves need to get out of the rule game. that is a major issue today (all time), the want what they want and like spoiled brats they get it. DCI should be a good parent and have the guts to say NO. Or let's state it another way - The criminals are making the laws. But DCI is the corps...the model is not as it was in the VFW days where the VFW set up their rules and the corps had to follow them, or not compete in VFW-sponsored shows. The corps are not 'spolied brats'...they create the competitive environment that they want their members to compete under. DCI is not some outside separate organization that can impose rules on their members. The corps staffs and admins create the environment they want to compete under in a democratic manner, by voting on proposals during their winter meetings. It took a long time for A&E to be legalized because the majority votes of the corps directors and outside board members were not there for years, even though many of the instructors had wanted those things forever. I like it this way. When enough of the voting board agrees that 'X' is desirable, it will pass, and not until then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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