Kevin Powell Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 He or She could do so with 2 blue coats or even with 2 Bluecoats. or you just paint it white and start all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) That might become another huge DCP fight...how do we define 'traditional'? Its probably going to be difficult to define " traditional " I understand that dilemna. Maybe we could just adopt the Supreme Court Potter Stewart Principle. When he was asked to define " Pornography ", Justice Stewart recognized the dilemna of a precise definition and simply replied " well, I know it when I see it ". Traditional Drum Corps.... We'll simply " know it when we see it ". Edited August 14, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) I didn't see Brasso's post before I posted my idea of having more than one division. He's a genius I came to the conclusion long ago that anyone that thinks exactly like me on all the issues of the day is a genius, Over60. My wife even tells my daughter when she has a question for her... " go ask the genius over there ". Edited August 14, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 Its probably going to be difficult to define " traditional " I understand that dilemna. Maybe we could just adopt the Supreme Court Potter Stewart Principle. When he was asked to define " Pornography ", Justice Stewart recognized the dilemna of a precise definition and simply replied " well, I know it when I see it ". Traditional Drum Corps.... We'll simply " know it when we see it ". This kind of why I defined my "line in the sand" approach. Porn before 1970 is not really porn by today's standards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billj Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I like the idea of the two-tiered system. At least the traditional class would sort of stand a chance at having a somewhat well-defined judging critieria. I have no idea how you'd judge the non traditional class. The word "art" seems to coming up a lot recently, describing shows as "art", having artistic directors and artistic consultants, etc.. I know that the Garfield Cadets coined the phrase "it looks like art, because it is" back in the 80's, but I''ve always felt that this was a case of thinking too highly of one's self, and I still do today. You can call these "artistic performances" if you want, but I just call them "performances". You can call the show designs "art" but I just call them "shows". Frankly, it starts getting a little too snooty and high-brow when the word "art" is thrown around so much. Let's not take this too seriously. As others have said, after all, it's just marching band. I'm a FMM and I've been involved for over 30 years. I love the activity, but I dont go to a show to have corps "teach me something", "make me think", or to portray some obscure theme that "I'm not smart enough to understand". THAT is art, and I don't really need it on my football field. Regarding scoring the non traditional class, come to think if it, you can't. You can't judge "art". You can't put a score on "art". It's up to each person to decide for themselves to judge the "art". It's totally subjective. This is probably the root of some of the issues that people have with the scoring today. Some corps are so focused on being "art", and when the judging community determines that the value/score is very high, and some fans disagree, bingo, we have a problem. So, I guess my proposal is: non traditional groups are not scored. They are exhibition only. This would be fine with me, since i stopped staying for the scores at shows a long time ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onmyown Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Judging in a post traditional Drum Corps world... I believe that as this competitive artform evolves, the manner in which it is judged will evolve as well. Simply, I believe that this will turn into an activity evaluated much like movies, music and plays are today. Where instead of having each performance individually judged and rated, the cumulative season's performances will be used to judge winners not only in the overall category of the best corps, but even captions and potentially new categories such as genre or style. There are a number of payoffs here. First, the cost of judging shows would go way down as the judging format could be something similar to movies or plays,, where a select panel of " experts" watches shows throughout the season both in person and perhaps on video and rates them on a secret ballot prior to the years last "Grand Finale" performance.. What I like about this is that each individual show now is more about entertainment and less about what the score is. Yet there will still be awareness that each show potentially has an impact on that corps' final ranking. What also would be nice about this is you wouldn't ever really know which corps are really in the running or not, and maybe your favorite corps would be more enjoyable to watch because you don't know if they're really at the top or not as the season progresses. The interest level in following some corps that historically don't rate as high might actually be more enthusiastic if it hasn't already been determined that they're not going to finish near the top; kind of like when you're watching a movie you really like and think it deserves recognition...you're going to talk about it and promote it...instead of dismissing it because you know it's not scoring well early on. This would also give forums like this a lot larger following and participation from a broader audience since no other judging results will have been released throughout the season. Think of it this way, most of us would be more enthusiastic about a show if we didn't know what the scores had been already. Rather, if we have heard from friends or other people that SCVs show, or the cavaliers' show, or the Academy's show was really cool and should go see it, we might be more excited not knowing what they had already scored. Anyway...just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 The only thing interesting is "Outstanding Entertainment, Innovation, and Tradition" awards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) interesting... the only part that bothers me is member score satisfaction/ motivation after every show. I love the idea and it is outside conventional thought. Judging in a post traditional Drum Corps world... I believe that as this competitive artform evolves, the manner in which it is judged will evolve as well. Simply, I believe that this will turn into an activity evaluated much like movies, music and plays are today. Where instead of having each performance individually judged and rated, the cumulative season's performances will be used to judge winners not only in the overall category of the best corps, but even captions and potentially new categories such as genre or style. There are a number of payoffs here. First, the cost of judging shows would go way down as the judging format could be something similar to movies or plays,, where a select panel of " experts" watches shows throughout the season both in person and perhaps on video and rates them on a secret ballot prior to the years last "Grand Finale" performance.. What I like about this is that each individual show now is more about entertainment and less about what the score is. Yet there will still be awareness that each show potentially has an impact on that corps' final ranking. What also would be nice about this is you wouldn't ever really know which corps are really in the running or not, and maybe your favorite corps would be more enjoyable to watch because you don't know if they're really at the top or not as the season progresses. The interest level in following some corps that historically don't rate as high might actually be more enthusiastic if it hasn't already been determined that they're not going to finish near the top; kind of like when you're watching a movie you really like and think it deserves recognition...you're going to talk about it and promote it...instead of dismissing it because you know it's not scoring well early on. This would also give forums like this a lot larger following and participation from a broader audience since no other judging results will have been released throughout the season. Think of it this way, most of us would be more enthusiastic about a show if we didn't know what the scores had been already. Rather, if we have heard from friends or other people that SCVs show, or the cavaliers' show, or the Academy's show was really cool and should go see it, we might be more excited not knowing what they had already scored. Anyway...just a thought. Edited August 14, 2012 by Kevin Powell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 (edited) no youre picking and choosing,,,,they said TRADITIONAL...that means way back to the roots...not some decade that some decide by themselves is acceptable as traditional...that excludes Bridgemen...vk...and many other..get back to the roots as they said this is part of what they said...it would leave crown and madison out also"To be a Traditional corps there would be no amplification or non-military marching by the brass and percussion " but then said some things are ok for the guard...sounds like wanyting to have your cake and eat it to Actually, the Traditional Division would have agreements among the current Corps Directors as to what constitutes " Traditional Drum Corps ".. nobody is suggesting that the " Traditional Drum Corps " Division go back and eliminate the " bugle " and institute " a fife "( coincidentally " a woodwind " ) because lets face it, the original, traditional " Drum Corps " had " fifes " not " brass bugles ". We are not going to ressurrect the 1770's here in " the Traditional Drum Corps " Division. Just like only the humorous are proposing that " the Avard Garde " would allow roller blades for faster movements and spins on the competition field and such extremism nonsense. However, IF the Corps Directors that intend to participate in the Avard Garde Division did indeed approve roller blades for use in their division, well whats the problem with that ?.. it is afterall " The Avard Garde "Division where pushing the envelope is not only valued, but encouraged. If they WANT to try using roller blades for higher velocity movements and quicker spins on the field with performers, then go for it. And this would be the perfect division to do so... and leave it out of the Traditional Division. This way everybody is happy. Edited August 15, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 Actually, the Traditional Division would have agreements among the current Corps Directors as to what constitutes " Traditional Drum Corps ".. nobody is suggesting that the " Traditional Drum Corps " Division go back and eliminate the " bugle " and institute " a fife "( coincidentally " a woodwind " ) because lets face it, the original, traditional " Drum Corps " had " fifes " not " brass bugles ". We are not going to ressurrect the 1770's here in " the Traditional Drum Corps " Division. Just like only the humorous are proposing that " the Avard Garde " would allow roller blades for faster movements and spins on the competition field and such extremism nonsense. However, IF the Corps Directors that intend to participate in the Avard Garde Division did indeed approve roller blades for use in their division, well whats the problem with that ?.. it is afterall " The Avard Garde "Division where pushing the envelope is not only valued, but encouraged. If they WANT to try using roller blades for higher velocity movements and quicker spins on the field with performers, then go for it. And this would be the perfect division to do so... and leave it out of the Traditional Division. This way everybody is happy. for tradition... I agree that an agreement needs to be defined for the sake of defining. for what you are calling avante guarde, forget agreements between director. ANYTHING GOES. Think Shock factor. Agreements between director got us to this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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