CQuinn Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I'm curious, why would that not be a good idea? If Box 7 wound up helping a few people find a better path would that be such a bad thing? I had no idea what Box 7 was until I saw it mentioned in this thread. I looked up their website and read what they were all about. In a nutshell they are a Christian organization asking people to sign up as a volunteer and go on tour with a corps. While volunteering they can openly live their faith and support members who want to live theirs. As long as members are not being forced to attend a bible study I don't have a problem with this at all. Do you object because you don't think it would help anybody or is it the whole religion aspect that has you concerned? -kg I'm not going to get into a religious discussion on DCP. It just isn't a good idea to invite folks with an agenda on tour with a corps who needs to concentrate on being a corps. They just get in the way. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 People are correct when they say that kids need to be mature if they are going to be in a drum corps that travels. Yes kids should be accountable. Yes parents should check out a corps. However, the thread is about the corps responsibility toward minors in its care, and there are some protocols, some legal, others ethical/moral that have to be followed. However, because the focus has been on minors, we forget that these procedures do not only protect the safety of minors, they protect the adults involved too. Let's look at an example. Suppose the OP's claim that wild times take place on busses. Personally I'm not sure the claims in most cases are not hearsay and exaggeration in most cases, but let's just say it happens and the bus is pulled over and nudity in a talent show is taking place and John or Jane Doe are caught in all their glory. If the police officer notices that minors are on board, even in states where the age of consent is 16, John or Jane could be arrested and if found guilty, could be labeled as sex offenders because in all fifty states, a kid still has to be 18 to purchase "adult" materials or enter an establishment with "adult" entertainment. Now where is this music major going to find a job? Will this music major be allowed to return to college? The consequences can be serious. Professionally I have organized trips involving high school and college students. These have been short term service projects and not anything as extensive as drum corps, but insurance companies often issue guidelines known as "best practices" that set out very clear and detailed recommendations. These would be guidelines regarding sleeping arrangements (never coed, minors never share the same accommodations as participants over 18), staff maintains appropriate boundaries with participants, showering arrangements, etc. I'll admit I found them excessive, especially since I knew all the people involved very well, but I followed them. The guidelines are strict and probably are next to impossible for a drum corps to follow in all cases, But they do more than protect minors, they set good boundaries and protect all involved and this is an important consideration in our society that is all to quick to take legal action. However, what we really need to keep in mind that this thread started because an earlier thread's discussion about a what is probably an isolated incident. Drum corps is filled with self-sacrificing and caring adults, many of whom are volunteers and young people who are single minded in their pursuits. The most common adjective to describe drum corps is family. Drum corps takes details seriously, including safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 There's a lot on my mind when I read this. My guess is many will be offended by something I will say, but I'll try and stick my tuppence in here. Back in the day, I saw stuff like this going on, heard about it, watched it. Got involved in some of the goofiness myself. You read much of the "History of the Westshoremen" thread, we talk about it. I was mixed up with Chumley's smoke bomb, for instance..... I'm no perfect little angel myself. I remember listening to some of my college classmates discuss how, in their elite DCI unit, they snuck a couple of sixes on board the bus during tour. Where are those "no-good troublemakers" now? Two are College Directors. Two are still working with DCI corps in important positions and are quite respected. All are excellent educators. They turned out just fine. With one or two notable exceptions in the Westshoremen, we all pretty much turned out fine, got some degrees (At least one Pharmacist, Psychologist, and Minister in the mix), hold down a decent job, work hard, and are pretty good citzens, even with all the craziness that we all were mixed up with in one degree or another. I'd say we beat the percentages of normal society. For those of you who have never performed, (we used to call you folks 'normals' in our corps by the way) one thing remains a constant from when I was active to today. You give up a lot of yourself on tour. Your choices are limited to what cereal and how much milk you put on it in the morning, and what you squirt on the hot dog at lunch. You're expected to put up sometimes with people you don't get along with off the field, but you MUST cooperate completely with them at all times during rehearsal for everyone's good. Don't kid yourself that everyone loves everyone else in the same corps. That's untrue. You put up with getting yelled at by staff and comrades, and dealing with very regimented, demanding, and extremely stressful situations constantly in the rehearsal and performance environ. You live inside a bus with little personal space, on practice fields, competition stadiums, and on gym floors. And, you get to pay 5+ grand a year for this privledge. It's not easy to do this. It never was and never will be. It's something all of us who have competed in DCI or DCA understand implicitly. Really, you could go have a pretty rippin' good vacation and get in lots more trouble with that 5 grand in Cancun. And.... we have people worried that young adults are blowing off steam in various ways that young people blow off steam in this extremely intense pressure cooker of an environment? Maybe the issue isn't the behavior itself, but the environment that generates said reactions, that to me in some of these circumstaces are understandable. We didn't have nekkid competitions on our busses, but we did do other stupid things back then that were about as goofy. Look. My parents told my sister and I we represented the family, and to act like we were brought up. I didn't know this until a couple of years ago when Dad let it slip, Dad checked on me frequently with Chuck Saia(Our wonderful Business Manager) as to whether I was acting up. Compared to a lot of us, I was pretty well behaved, so Chuck didn't tell him quite everything. The point is, Dad checked up on me. It's okay to do that. It's no crime as a parent to be concerned and talk to staff and management about your kid. When you do this activity, you grow up FAST. VERY fast. You learn to be very mature, self reliant, and independent quickly, or you end up failing. Like I said, for the most part, we have turned out just fine, and the corps kids in the future will, too. If you took offense by anything I have said, I don't mean to give offense, I'm more trying to explain some things from the viewpoint of a veteran of the trenches to people who haven't been there. There are real issues. I've said before that this activity ain't Care Bears and Rainbow Brite. I have no real answers. This isn't Parris Island or the USNA D and B complete with Tac Officers hovering around, but it seems some folks might be thinking that's what it should be. As it is, there's enough steam on the popcorn kernels as it is from what I know, see, have heard from kids from yesterday and today, and personally experienced. You don't want the kernels popping. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I'm curious, why would that not be a good idea? If Box 7 wound up helping a few people find a better path would that be such a bad thing? I had no idea what Box 7 was until I saw it mentioned in this thread. I looked up their website and read what they were all about. In a nutshell they are a Christian organization asking people to sign up as a volunteer and go on tour with a corps. While volunteering they can openly live their faith and support members who want to live theirs. As long as members are not being forced to attend a bible study I don't have a problem with this at all. Do you object because you don't think it would help anybody or is it the whole religion aspect that has you concerned? -kg because people don't need religion to be responsible. Acting like a religious group can come in and provide a moral compass is misguided at best (and potentially much worse, considering some of the stories in the news the last few years) 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 because people don't need religion to be responsible. Acting like a religious group can come in and provide a moral compass is misguided at best (and potentially much worse, considering some of the stories in the news the last few years) We did pray before contests (optionally) BITD and gather in with one of our vet snare drummers. I'd say- if people seek it out voluntarily, a good thing. Knowing something is available if you want it- a good thing. It could help some people a lot if they want it-- but not all will want that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 We did pray before contests (optionally) BITD and gather in with one of our vet snare drummers. I'd say- if people seek it out voluntarily, a good thing. Knowing something is available if you want it- a good thing. It could help some people a lot if they want it-- but not all will want that. well, I would throw out the idea that generally the people that seek out guidance and assistance are the ones that need it the least. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 well, I would throw out the idea that generally the people that seek out guidance and assistance are the ones that need it the least. If you attend an AA meeting, you might feel differently. AA has people who have dramatically messed up their lives, and these are often the same people that once sober, are best able to help people stop drinking. But in general, people usually have to hit rock bottom before they reach out for help. That being said, I think we also need to keep in mind we're really not talking about serious chronic behaviors that need therapy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 well, I would throw out the idea that generally the people that seek out guidance and assistance are the ones that need it the least. Interesting thought. I like it. It makes me think very seriously, which I appreciate very much. In some cases, that's quite right. Many people don't look for help until they've hit the skids. It's why the Prodigal Son parable is a good one, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGTech Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I'm not going to get into a religious discussion on DCP. It just isn't a good idea to invite folks with an agenda on tour with a corps who needs to concentrate on being a corps. They just get in the way. Forget religion for a second. Every volunteer has an agenda; i.e. a purpose for being there. Therefore your logic that people with agendas "just get in the way" is a bit flawed. The only way a volunteer could get in the way would be to interrupt a rehearsal or if they harassed members in an effort to push their agenda. In that case yes you would need to remove them. Think of it this way. Lets say a volunteer who happens to love the Chicago Cubs and Drum Corps goes on tour and works in the kitchen. Every day he is wearing a Cubs jersey and hat and just loves to talk baseball. During his interaction with some of the members he finds out some of them are Cubs fans as well. Then while serving meals as he sees the Cubs fans come through the line he fills them in on the score of last nights game and any memorable plays that occurred. The Cubs fans appreciate the updates and are glad to spend a minute or two on a topic other than drum corps. You being a White Sox fan can't stand the site of of that blasted Cubs hat and you cringe when you overhear the conversations he has with other Cubs fans. Should that volunteer be removed from tour for being a distraction? Does having a strong identity with anything above and beyond drum corps preclude a person from being an effective and valuable volunteer? Another question: Lets say a group of drum corps loving psychiatrists decide that they want to volunteer and help out on tour. Their thinking is that along with serving the corps they could also make themselves available to provide counseling to members if needed. Would they also fail the agenda test and their offer to volunteer rejected? -kg 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) OK BigW... who is the shrink? Marched with the minister plus the X-Ray Tech (RIP) and just saw the Pharmacist last week. To throw in my .02 I joined a Sr corps at 16 after getting the term "personal responsibiliy" beat in my skull by my PA German descendant parents over the last... well 16 years. Biggest thing I can add that is really on topic is the problem that some people (regardless of age) may be naive about if their new "buddy" is as nice as they seem. I did good at keeping out of trouble when I KNEW there was going to be trouble. Problem was I hung with some friends who ended up getting in seriuos crap and I'm just lucky that I woke up to what was going on before I got my own rap sheet. Edit: Didn't know I marched with a future(?) minister until 20 years afterwards and ran into his wife at a function. Edited August 17, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.