The Safety of Children.

[drumcorpsdrummerman2012]

ADMINS...Please hold your fire and read this before closing. It's not an attempt at the same thread!

I was getting ready to post a response to the lady who's daughter was left on finals night when the topic was closed. While I understand and agree with the admins' decision to close what should be a one on one discussion between the parent and the corps' administration, I also think this is a topic that in a more general setting is worth some discussion because lets be honest, drum corps is by in large a somewhat shady activity. While I'm not going to speak on the subject of the last thread (the kid who was left), I would like to open up a different discussion..particularly the behavior of drum corps organizations while on tour.

At one point in the other thread someone had mentioned that on finals not a very "school's out" midset is taken. I'd challenge further that the entire tour is very "schools out". Everything from bus talent shows where nudity is applauded, alcoholic activity (rarely monitored), staff and members having smokes together, staff using fould language with the members in a very casual manner, sexual activity...the list can go on and on. We can put the blinders on or we can face the fact that this type of "schools out" behavior is simply a reality within the activity.

I'm not sure what the answer is but what I do worry about at times is how long it will take before a parent goes further than any and reports an incident that could shut the whole activity down due to legalities. I for one don't want to see that happen to an activity that despite this type of behavior, can also be a very good educational experience for a kid. But for what KIND of kid might be the real question.

Lets be upfront about something. This "behavior" (as listed above for example) should not be too surprising because what this activity does is makes a kid grow up very fast. "Kids" are forced to become "adults" before they legally are one (or at least the ones who march before turning 18). Some kids are already mature enough in their upbringing to be able to handle that kind of environment without making unwise decisions that can hurt themselves. Others....often not ready for that much personal responsibility can simply fold under the pressure (including peer pressure) and destroy themselves.

Again, I'm not sure what the answer is. Though I'll throw this out there as a thought. MIGHT it be time to not only put an age limit at the top...but the bottom as well? While it's rare to see many (if any) corps with members under 18 (these days) in the elite corps, technically a kid can march as early as he or she wants as long as the corps offers the contract and the parents sign the dotted line. Maybe it's time for an 18-21 (22 bonus) rule to be put in place for World Class corps and then perhaps an 18 top on Open Class and let THOSE corps be the training grounds for the younger members...more OFFICIALLY. Separating the adult and child tables might not only be appropriate for Thanksgiving supper but the drum corps activity as well. Within these boundaries, World Class corps (with nobody under the age of 18) can continue to function with minimal supervision and a more "honor rollish" type of "make your own decisions at your own risk" type of standard while the Open Class corps with nobody over 18 a more high school like supervision (chaparones, stricter rules etc.).

Thoughts?

Just some thoughts, because I do think the activity toes a very dangerous line at times that could hurt the activity or at the very least some individual corps if we are not careful about what we do.

Edited August 14, 2012 by drumcorpsdrummerman2012

[Phillygwm]

I think this is largely a matter of parental responsibility. If your high school (or younger) kid comes to you and asks to join a corps, YOU need to conduct due diligence, ranging from ensuring it's a safe experience to a financially stable organization. Ask other parents, interview management, determine who sits on the Board of Directors, talk to your HS band director. You also need to recognize, as a parent, that some things will happen on the road that you might not be entirely pleased with, despite your best efforts and the best efforts of corps management. But if you've done your homework, and if your kid has a certain level of maturity, it will usually turn out better than if your kid were sitting home all summer, unsupervised.

The question of age limits actually opens up a bigger, semi-related, can of worms: What differentiates a OC from a WC corps? Obviously, there's a difference between the elite few in WC and the smaller OC. But there's a gray area in there, too. Aside from self-selecting where they compete, what's the difference between, say, Jersey Surf and Oregon Crusaders?

[KAW]

Just a few thoughts: A) This isn't something new, these issues have been around a very long time, B) How corps manage these issues and the culture they create varies greatly from corps to corps and aren't necessarily correlated to how they place, and C) I wonder if this is an area where Box 7 ministries could make an impact in terms of staff and members taking personal responsibility for their actions.

[Some Random Drummer]

Just a few thoughts: A) This isn't something new, these issues have been around a very long time, B) How corps manage these issues and the culture they create varies greatly from corps to corps and aren't necessarily correlated to how they place, and C) I wonder if this is an area where Box 7 ministries could make an impact in terms of staff and members taking personal responsibility for their actions.

As someone without religious affiliation, I would certainly hope that the organization I march with can manage its members responsibly without the intervention of a religious group. In fact, I would go as far as to say I would hope the organization I march with can manage its members responsibly without any intervention from any group, period.

I have two, somewhat conflicting, feelings on this matter. The first is that, as a parent, it is ultimately your call to send your under-18-year-old child off for a summer to march with (mostly) above-18-year-olds. Once your child is a legal adult, then it is obviously a different story, but this thread seems primarily aimed towards parents of younger children. In such cases, I must ask: Why is it the corps' responsibility to ensure that your child makes responsible choices? Is there an obligation for the corps to promote a healthy, substance and sex free atmosphere? Of course. But if you expect the organization to monitor every last behavior choice of your child, I think, quite frankly, that your child is not ready for a summer DCI tour. There is an understanding in these groups that most of the members (in World Class corps) are above 18 years old, and many are above 21 years of age. As such, if your child is NOT 18 or 21 years old, then it falls to him/her to make responsible choices while the members who are 18 and 21 make decisions that are responsible for them.

That being said, do the corps have a responsibility to ensure the safety of its members? Of course. Should a child be left behind somewhere simply because they were (by accident or not) late? Of course not. And should a corps take measures to ensure that the overall atmosphere in the activity is one of healthy, responsible decision-making? Of course. So if, as the OP suggests, substance/alcohol use is "simply a reality" on the tour, then obviously some responsibility needs to be had.

But, quite frankly, if I'm a parent (which I freely admit, I'm not), I either trust my child enough to go on tour and make responsible decisions, or I don't. I'm not going to place the burden of making sure my child makes responsible choices on the corps he/she joins. One of the best parts about participating in DCI is being taught how to be a strong, independent, responsible young adult. That responsibility, then, falls on the child/young adult. If you, as a parent, have concerns about the nature of the activity, then it is on you to do your due diligence and ensure that the corps your child intends to march with is going to foster a responsible atmosphere, is going to be financially sound enough to make it through a season of drum corps, is going to always be prioritizing the safety of your child, etc. If you sign on the dotted line that your kid is allowed to go off for a summer with these people, it is assumed that you have done the research and made an informed decision that your child is responsible enough to handle the stress, to make proper decisions, and that the corps is going to provide an atmosphere to allow that to happen.

Just my $.02. I'm not a parent. I haven't even marched. But it seems like common sense that would apply to any activity, not just DCI.

[soccerguy315]

I wonder if this is an area where Box 7 ministries could make an impact in terms of staff and members taking personal responsibility for their actions.

no

[oldbandguy]

I'm not sure what the answer is but what I do worry about at times is how long it will take before a parent goes further than any and reports an incident that could shut the whole activity down due to legalities.

Thoughts?

I'm certainly not making light of your topic, but let's not go to the extreme of saying the actions of an individual(s) could be the end of the entire activity.

Has college football been shut down because of the actions of the Penn State football coach? Not even Penn State football has been shut down.

That being said, I would agree that it is the responsibility of the corps administration to have the safety (in all areas) of their members at the very top of their priority list.

[JonnyMo]

I started marching when I was 16. Part of Drum Corps when you're that young is learning to grow up. You have to be responsible and learn to understand that your actions have consequences. When I came home I was way more responsible than my friends in high school. I always saw that as a positive thing.

I'd also really rather religion didn't come muddling in to "regulate" the activity. Not everyone ascribes to that sort of thing.

I survived and I wouldn't have had it any other way. Adding a minimum age limit would have significantly changed my drum corps experience for the worse.

Edited August 14, 2012 by JonnyMo

[BDAMom]

So it sounds like there are really two intertwined issues here: behavior and safety. They go hand in hand, so I will address them both.

My son started marching when he was 15, turned 16 while on his first tour. The first year, he was in an Open Class corps with many members close to his own age, then moved into World Class where he was one of the younger ones the following year.

I've never expected a corps to legislate/supervise the behavior of my child, just like I also never expected his school to do it either. That's my job, as a parent, to teach him right from wrong then trust him to do the right things when he goes out on his own. I know for a fact that he has been faced with temptations but he's also told me that while it was hard, he resisted- as do others- and tended to gravitate toward those kids who also decided it just wasn't worth it. Stuff DOES happen, but it also DOESN'T happen. I'm not saying he's perfect- no one is- but he knows that if he messes up and gets sent home, or for that matter even fussed at and it gets back to me, I will no longer support him in this activity. Furthermore, he sees drum corps as a privilege and an honor- not a right- and so he takes it seriously and tows the line.

Of course, even now that he is over 18 I still expect the corps to see to his safety, help him out with any medical issues, and provide the agreed upon transportation/housing/food during tour- though really now that he is an adult, that's between them. We have been very lucky in this regard. The issues we have had health-wise (minor) were handled well.

I do not think that the minimum age should be raised, because my son was ready for World Class when he was 16 going on 17. He was ready for the more competitive experience, more demanding teaching, harder reps. He was mature for his age and handled it socially just fine. To have prohibited him from that because other people don't know how to act would be unfair to him, as well as other kids like him who ARE ready socially and musically to have that experience. I really feel that this should be a parental/corps call, judged on an individual basis.

As another poster in this thread said- if a kid is one that needs supervision in order to "behave" then drum corps is not for them. A kid MUST be trustworthy to stay out of trouble, be responsible for their own stuff, be respectful, etc. Honestly, if my kid weren't that way, I wouldn't have allowed him to march in the first place.

Edited August 14, 2012 by BDAMom

[AlexL]

While some of this definitely happens, if theyre not ready for it by 16, they won't ever be. Its not like this stuff doesn't go on locally behind closed doors either (drinking, smoking, sex, etc).

[7567BC]

First off, keep religion out of the behavioral shaping of marching members. It should be the mm's personal choice and pursuit and if something is made available to them in the operation of a corps then they should pursue it but keep it individualized.

Second; raise a responsible trustworthy kid and let them grow with an appropriate for them corps you as their parent thoroughly researched

Third; volunteer be witness to corps behavior and learn what is truly needing correction or cessation or what in the grand scheme of things is pretty harmless

Fourth; see if the corps you select lives up to your research. What is the member makeup? Do they have sufficient staffing? What are their touring accommodations?

Fifth; check up on your kid during the season. They won't mind. Well they shouldn't!

Sixth; remember stories often are exaggerated. Gather facts if you hear of an incident.

Seventh; set YOUR ground rules for your kid. He/ she is ultimately your FULL responsibility.

Corps are responsible for kids safety and well being while in their care but that doesn't mean you say " phew, he/ she gone for the summer, let's go places and eat things" ( 3 Stooges ref. sorry)

Lastly; trust them, call them, cut the apron strings. Oh and give them plenty of condoms:-)