The Safety of Children.

[KGTech]

I don't think there is a youth activity in the world that can offer absolute protection from all undesired behaviors. Problems like this can or do occur anytime young people spend time in group settings. It is in their nature to explore boundaries and push the envelope on social behaviors. Thinking back to my experiences as a teenager involved in drum corps I cringe when I think about my daughter doing some of the same things I did. While my first reaction is to keep her far away from any activity that might expose her to behaviors like this I also realize that I would do her a huge disservice by doing so. As I see it my job as a parent is to teach my child how navigate her way through this world, not to remove her from it. She will spend her life surrounded by idiots and bad behavior so ultimately she needs to learn how to avoid the bad behavior and not become another idiot.

I believe the positives aspects of the drum corps experience far outweigh the possible negatives. The OP called drum corps by and large a "shady" activity. I could not disagree more. The sheer magnitude of effort, money and people it takes to get a corps up and running indicate that those that undertake such endeavor are anything but shady. No one is out there starting a drum corps for the express purpose of getting over on someone, it just defies logic. That is not to say that bad organizational decisions are never made, clearly they sometimes are. However I believe those decisions are usually made with the best possible intentions.

Every parent needs to take responsibility of determining whether or not a drum corps experience is right for their child. If my daughter wants to join when she is a teenager I will need to determine if she is ready for all aspects of the experience. If she is not capable of making mostly good choices on her own she will not be going on tour. All I can ask of an organization is that they have a stated code of conduct and that they follow through with appropriate discipline when that code is broken.

-kg

[chaos001]

Well, for the most part...everyone's so ###### busy and tired that there's not a lot of time to do much else. Yes people drink, smoke, and even get away with having sex (which kind of baffles me, but hey...go ahead and get caught). OMG...it's just like real life!

One cannot legislate morality. It has to be learned, and if needed, consequences applied.

Edited August 15, 2012 by chaos001

[ordsw24]

I doubt a corps ministry would or could make a difference in any behavior that might or might not be occurring on tour.

Edited August 15, 2012 by ordsw24

[Tim K]

I have two issues to discuss: Box 7 Ministries and corps responsibilities.

The person who suggested Box 7 Ministries may not have had a religious agenda in mind as much as a suggestion of a group that knows drum corps and could potentially be neutral offering advice. Work in ministry is not always about converting people and people in professional ministry see everything from birth to death and all kinds of things in-between, have a unique perspective on the human condition, and are called for advice on all kinds of matters..

Now as far as drum corps and minors are concerned, a corps has two choices: allow minors to march or not allow them. If they want talented 16 and 17 year olds, they have to follow safety procedures for minors. This would not be a matter of corps policy, it would be the law. If some of the things the original poster mentioned take place in some states and it were caught, people could be arrested. It's that serious In the drum corps world, we can say parents should know better. In the world outside of drum corps, directors and staff would be responsible, no questions asked.

My guess is that while the wild behavior may exist, it probably does not happen all the time and it probably does not happen with every corps. It's also a problem that can be easily remedied. No kid goes through the rigors of auditions, the sacrifices of winter camps, the loss of summer freedom not to mention income, the 50-60 hours per week of practice, and the challenges of life on the road for a few minutes of hoopla on the bus. That can happen without leaving home. Corps that allow minors to march have to set rules and enforce them, and if kids know it is a matter of staying in the corps, they'll follow the rules. Most kids who march love the corps too much to screw things up. Too much is at stake and too many sacrifices have been made.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Tim K

[fsubone]

There is no way to completely safe-guard any child from the world, unless you're going to put them in a bubble in their room forever. I know it's the current way of thinking that we all need to bubble-wrap everyone, and never let anything bad happen to any kids, but the world isn't bubble-wrapped. The world is a tough place. If you as a parent can't prepare your child for the rigors of the real world, then that's your fault, sadly. I teach a high school band, and had parents that HAD to follow the corps on trips, and demanded they were with us at all times to make sure nothing happened to their precious little baby. The kid even came up to me and told me how embarrassing it was to have them follow their every move, because they couldn't just be a kid. If you honestly think kids have no ideas what alcohol is by the age of 16, then you are living in a dream world. It's up to the parents to raise their kids right, and up to the kids to act smart, and think before acting. I was raised right by my parents, and didn't have my first drink until my 21st birthday, because I was raised with values to respect laws and rules.

Yeah, the corps can help keep the kids safe, but having their own rules and guidelines. But with drum corps, there really is no personal freedoms. You are with your corps at all times, and there really is no time to screw around. Yes, there are free days, but most corps have very strict rules about free day behavior. my corps had this fun rule, that is anyone of age came back from a free day inebriated, they would have the metronome follow them around for the next day, cranked to full volume. And if anyone under-age was found to have been drinking, they were sent home, no questions asked.

If you're a parent, and your kid wants to march, look into the corps, but also look at your kid, and see how you've raised them, and how they act out in the real world. Drum corps makes kids grow up quickly, it's a fact. So if they aren't mature to deal with that, then they shouldn't march until they're ready to. And I started marching at 16 as well, albeit in an Open Class corps, but still a top Open Class corps and moved up to World Class at 18. The WC corps I marched with does have a minimum age, more because of school than anything else. Usually high school kids get out later, and have to miss huge chunks of pre-tour. That's just not conducive to learning at the same pace if you miss three of four weeks.

Edited August 15, 2012 by fsubone

[actucker]

I think, ultimately, the corps members have to be responsible for their own behaviors. There is no way a corps can completely monitor every behavior that their members participate in, nor should they have to. Again, if a member is not mature enough to handle that level of responsibility, then they should probably not be allowed to march. That becomes a decision that the parents have to make (assuming said kid is under age). Just like any other environment where young people get together, kids will be kids (yes, even the responsible ones).

That being said, the corps does have a responsibility to ensure safety, but at what point does the line get drawn? There's been mention of a member being left behind for example. If the expectation is that you should be on the bus by a certain time, then that is the expectation. These performance sites are not that huge that you can easily get lost. Has anyone here ever had an issue figuring out where the busses were at a drum corps show? When I marched, the rule was, if you're not on the bus at the time you're given to be on the bus, its your responsibility to find your way to the next show. If that meant calling a cab, then so be it. The busses usually gave about a 10 minute grace period, and then pulled out. I don't think that its an unreasonable expectation, and we never had any issues with members missing the bus. If corps wait for one member who is running late to the bus, then they have to wait for anyone. We can all see how that could be problematic when trying to get a corps down the road. At some point, individual responsibility has to be taken for getting to the bus on time.

The corps' responsibilities are to provide safe transportation, yes, but the member's responsibility is to adhere to the announced schedule.

[ashyUechi]

Again, why are we airing this out on DCP?

[ashyUechi]

Drum corps saved my life. I had an absentee father. Being part of a drum corps surrounded me with University enrolled young adults. I then became the first University educated member of my family. The speculative accusations don't happen as much you might think.

But wait! Why are we airing this out on DCP?

[JohnZ]

Again, why are we airing this out on DCP?

because it is an appropriate subject and is not discussing one individual experience or corps.

and we are watching it closely to ensure it stays appropriate and on topic.

[MikeD]

Now as far as drum corps and minors are concerned, a corps has two choices: allow minors to march or not allow them. If they want talented 16 and 17 year olds, they have to follow safety procedures for minors. This would not be a matter of corps policy, it would be the law.

Excellent post, Tim.

This is the key point in the posts in this thread, IMO. Corps set policies that apply to every member, minor or not, but they have special legal obligations when it comes to caring for minors.

Yes, the members have responsibilities...and yes, drum corps is a great place to develop, as a certain director likes to say...into magnificent human beings. But none of that applies to the legal side of things when dealing with minors.

One of the consequences of drum corps aligning itself with the scholastic band world is that parents now look at the corps the same way they look at their school systems...and they have expectations of how the corps will conduct its business...they look to the educational model they are familiar with at home and expect the corps to adhere to those standards.

Also...the contract a corps has in dealing with minors is not with the child...it is with the parents or legal guardians.