wvu80 Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Yes! the ability if some to scape goat GH even from the G7 stand point is terrible! Use GH as a scapegoat and stand behind him or use GH as the common enemy of drum corps. The man cannot win to be abused like that! He is truly working only toward the betterment of Youth... Those that think GH are the cause of issues need only to see the big picture. He isn't the reason Glassmen and Teal aren't on the field this year. This I believe. Post nicely written, Mr. Charlie. I also believe that if we view the current state of affairs not as about politics but survival of the activity, it may help to understand the strong words by those most invested in trying to finance a corps every year. It only takes one bad year and any icon of DCI could be gone forever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) Anyway, can we pretend that drum corps as of several/10/20 years ago was a perfect model for an ever-lasting activity? Would kids be interested in performing 1990's shows today? No. They want something new and fresh, so corps today arrange to that. But so do bands. That's why corps aren't doing too well (especially smaller corps). So you either have the big boys (G7) with huge try-out numbers, or the little guys who can only live year-to-year. Has anyone talked to kids these days? Are any of them psyched to go try out for a corps like the Pacific Crest? Or The Academy? So now you have 20 corps or so who have no shot at a Top 8 or 10 placement versus 7-9 behemoths. So you get waning interest in participating if you're not good enough to make the top 7-9, and you have the other 20 or so corps produce shows that are trying to be at the top 8-10 level, which makes it not fun for the kids who can't perform at that level. Who is talking about doing 1990s shows? I've asked during different season why "kids" don't go to "lesser corps" if they miss the cut with their dream corps. Most given answer was the cost of being in either corps was about the same. So why spend "all that money" (direct quote) if it isn't the best possible experience. Other said that not being in a name corps or one that had a chance to win wasn't "worth the money". So next question is why isn't it worth the money? Do people today only want the biggest bang for their bucks and if not forget it? Or is the current mindset that non-top corps "suck" and not worth the time and effort to join or even care about. Sure most person falls somewhere between the extremes but the G7 proposals I see fall towards the "not worth the effort" extreme. Corps directors and program writers need to write smarter, not harder. Write to the abilities of your kids (a little higher so they improve) and it gives them inspiration to stick around. Otherwise, it'll keep being the G7 beating down everyone else year after year because they're experienced in the more advanced techniques. So how does one write to the kids abilities when the show is set and written before the arraangers and directors know the kids and their abilities? And if you say "work smarter not harder" around my IT agency be prepared to be laughed at unless you have a lot of deatils to work with. Edited January 19, 2013 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) This I believe. Post nicely written, Mr. Charlie. I also believe that if we view the current state of affairs not as about politics but survival of the activity, it may help to understand the strong words by those most invested in trying to finance a corps every year. It only takes one bad year and any icon of DCI could be gone forever. I feel it's about survival also. Question is do members of DCI/G7/whoever work harder towards the survival of their own group or towards the activity as a whole. More I read the more I feel that having people connected with individual corps on the DCI BoD is a conflict of interest. Need people not connected (emotional or otherwise) running the activity. One bad year, one lawsuit, infighting within the corps, unexpected cost (gas spike, etc), one ah #### somewhere and it can all go downhill to nothing. Edit: add fund raising takes a hit for some reason (today: Bingo has gone to Hell in lot of areas, BITD: local show was big fund raiser but higher costs killed the profit margin) Edited January 19, 2013 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Answering your question above: yes. And I don't mean "yes, after they got cut somewhere else." I mean "yes", period. Tell the thousands of kids who have marched multiple seasons over the last 20 years with the "not behemoth" corps that they didn't have fun. Go ahead. I'm sure they hated every minute of it. Edited to be more specific: yes, I have talked to a large number of kids these days who were totally psyched to try out for corps other than the "behemoths". And not just Troop, either. So lets just remember that there are kids having a blast at every level, which is why it's important to have DCI serving a much broader corps base than 3, 6, 7, or 12. I am beginning to think many that post here have never marched corps or only have a very small or narrow minded experience with it. Spot on Terri. We have WAY too many Holiday Inn express experts, run into these peeps all the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 I feel it's about survival also. Question is do members of DCI/G7/whoever work harder towards the survival of their own group or towards the activity as a whole. More I read the more I feel that having people connected with individual corps on the DCI BoD is a conflict of interest. Need people not connected (emotional or otherwise) running the activity. Agreed. There ought to be one or two corps reps, but the majority of the board should be non-corps-affiliated parties. With the new activities being started up (SoundSport and DrumLineBattle), I think now would be the time to transition to having a board of, say, seven unaffiliated persons, plus two representatives each selected by activity-specific groups -- ie drum corps, drumlines, and soundsport groups. Or maybe 2 WC reps, 1 OC, and one each for the other activities if you wanted to weight things towards the "primary" activity. But the majority of board members should be unaffiliated. Rule changes, etc, would still be handled by the WC and OC membership, and by some subset of representatives for the other activities. The board itself shouldn't be involved in those details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamMan Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 So how does one write to the kids abilities when the show is set and written before the arraangers and directors know the kids and their abilities? And if you say "work smarter not harder" around my IT agency be prepared to be laughed at unless you have a lot of deatils to work with. "Writing to their abilities" is standard in top corps. You know their abilities from the previous year. It's not hard, just be observant (corps arrangers/designers). And yet we still see Bottom 10 corps trying to write shows that redefine drum corps...and then they fold when kids go elsewhere or rules don't swing their way. Also "working smarter, not harder" is what's got BD all those pretty rings. Yes, they work hard (obviously harder than most other corps), but when something doesn't work, they FIX it. They CHANGE it. They set the bar high, but not too high, so not only can they reach their expectations, they have room to exceed them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerriTroop Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 "Writing to their abilities" is standard in top corps. You know their abilities from the previous year. It's not hard, just be observant (corps arrangers/designers). And yet we still see Bottom 10 corps trying to write shows that redefine drum corps...and then they fold when kids go elsewhere or rules don't swing their way. Also "working smarter, not harder" is what's got BD all those pretty rings. Yes, they work hard (obviously harder than most other corps), but when something doesn't work, they FIX it. They CHANGE it. They set the bar high, but not too high, so not only can they reach their expectations, they have room to exceed them. And? Name some corps shows that tried to redefine drum corps in those non top ranks. I seriously don't see it. I see some trying to copy the top, to their detriment, or success, depending on the corps and year. I see corps writing to their talent level. But the advantage BD has right now is a staff comprised of people who have been winning together for a very, very long time. They know how to play the game, and kudos to them. I bear no grudge for that. But surely you can see how most other corps out there don't have BD's design/instructional/infrastructure advantage. It's easy to make it sound so simple when you sit at the top. Just like business, to stay at the top you play the game to the extreme or you change the rules of the game to you advantage. And if you can do both... Well, there you have the strategy of the 7. The difference here is that it's supposed to be a beneficial youth activity, not a cut throat marketplace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Getting rid of Open Class would not mean getting rid of the corps. It means they would compete in a different division. Since they already compete in a different division, what are you saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamMan Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 And? Name some corps shows that tried to redefine drum corps in those non top ranks. I seriously don't see it. I see some trying to copy the top, to their detriment, or success, depending on the corps and year. I see corps writing to their talent level. But the advantage BD has right now is a staff comprised of people who have been winning together for a very, very long time. They know how to play the game, and kudos to them. I bear no grudge for that. But surely you can see how most other corps out there don't have BD's design/instructional/infrastructure advantage. It's easy to make it sound so simple when you sit at the top. Just like business, to stay at the top you play the game to the extreme or you change the rules of the game to you advantage. And if you can do both... Well, there you have the strategy of the 7. The difference here is that it's supposed to be a beneficial youth activity, not a cut throat marketplace. 7th Regiment got stuck trying to redefine drum corps with shows like "Unsquare Dance", Academy went way over their heads with "Left of Spring". I'm not saying lower corps shouldn't try to push boundaries, but how can you build if you don't have a solid foundation? Also, if, as you say, drum corps is about being a beneficial youth activity (which means, what? Education only?), then you can see why kids and fans are losing interest. Winter percussion is the same beats and requires fewer rehearsals. Marching bands are getting better and their seasons longer. There's less and less difference between drum corps and other marching ensembles because designers are just trying to push out and artistic gem regardless of their corps's abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 what if Gmen and Teal had some more money that last year got funneled to the G7? Then they would have spent it just as poorly. Again, these groups did not: - live within their means (which also means cashflow, not just revenues) - adjust their spending for reduction in revenues - structure revenue commitments and dependencies appropriately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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