Stu Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 The " On Any Given Sunday " chances for a major upset win go out the window even before the assigned judges get out of bed in the morning to later do their " subjective judging " for the day, But that also holds true for 'any' subjectively judged contest. Unless, of course, the judges are completely new at each contest 'and' they have never seen the the contestants or the contestants previous results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) I am saying that drum corps has been a constantly changing activity for 70 years. Who is to say what the most 'massive' changes are? IMO the decade of the 70's is where the most massive changes happened, but others disagree. All true, MikeD. We were discussing the comparison of changes in the 40 years of DCI Drum Corps and the breadth and scope of Changes in other youth competitive sport endeavors ( and others mentioned pro sports changes as well ) and I mentioned that there has been more wholesale " changes " in DCI Drum Corps in these last 40 years than just about any other youth competition sport out there that we can think of during this similar timeframe. This illustrates that when it comes to " changes ", insofar as the on field " product " is concerned, we are chock full of " changes " during these last 40 years. That said, there are areas where we have had unprecedented " status quo " and and one of these areas of " status quo " seems to me to be competitive placement stagnation at the very top where more than 80% of the DCI titles have been won by just 3 Corps since the mid 70's, despite several dozen Corps in these 40 years having made their World Class Division Title quest journey attempt during this time frame. We're all trying here to figure out what " changes " need to occur to breath new life and vigor into the placement competition, particularly at the very top. Nothing that I have seen put forth by either the G7 nor DCI seems to address this on going concern..... we're also in a current " status quo " mode when it comes to growing a fan base too. And I think just about everyone agrees that being " status quo " with the current size of the national fan base is both unacceptable as well as financially unsustainable. So " changes " need to take place to address this too, or the Big Tent will come done forever in our Traveling Show across the country. Edited March 8, 2013 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c mor Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 To summarize, everybody wants to be in charge in order to make their changes, but nobody is certain they have the right answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 To summarize, everybody wants to be in charge in order to make their changes, but nobody is certain they have the right answers. An outside eye sometimes is the best friend in the world. DCI and their member corps have to be in agreement that some impartial outside evaluation of the product and message is in order. Right now, everyone's just seeing the world from their perspective, and as we know, their perspective, while informed by their own experience, isn't necessarily in line with what the larger world might see when they look at drum corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) To summarize, everybody wants to be in charge in order to make their changes, but nobody is certain they have the right answers. Yes. We're sort of sympatico with both the G7 and DCI in this respect. ( haha) Edited March 8, 2013 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 All true, MikeD. We were discussing the comparison of changes in the 40 years of DCI Drum Corps and the breadth and scope of Changes in other youth competitive sport endeavors ( and others mentioned pro sports changes as well ) and I mentioned that there has been more wholesale " changes " in DCI Drum Corps in these last 40 years than just about any other youth competition sport out there that we can think of during this similar timeframe. This illustrates that when it comes to " changes ", insofar as the on field " product " is concerned, we are chock full of " changes " during these last 40 years. That said, there are areas where we have had unprecedented " status quo " and and one of these areas of " status quo " seems to me to be competitive placement stagnation at the very top where more than 80% of the DCI titles have been won by just 3 Corps since the mid 70's, despite several dozen Corps in these 40 years having made their World Class Division Title quest journey attempt during this time frame. We're all trying here to figure out what " changes " need to occur to breath new life and vigor into the placement competition, particularly at the very top. Nothing that I have seen put forth by either the G7 nor DCI seems to address this on going concern..... we're also in a current " status quo " mode when it comes to growing a fan base too. And I think just about everyone agrees that being " status quo " with the current size of the national fan base is both unacceptable as well as financially unsustainable. So " changes " need to take place to address this too, or the Big Tent will come done forever in our Traveling Show across the country. But while the 'powers at be' corps within DCI want change they really do not want 'change'. Here is what I mean: A few years ago a friend of mine who has years of judging experience was invited as a part of a team of judges to go to a regional HS contest; the idea was to get a fresh new set of eyes in to evaluate the units within that region. The new judges, all of high quality, were provided with the rubric sheets, went through a day of getting familiar with the system prior to judging, but they were also instructed to not review any past placements or go on youtube to watch any previous years shows. Then they judged; and when the results were announced the chaos began. Units which had never won medals before placed high and the perennial winner had slipped to fourth. Directors, parents, fans, and the like which had been attending this contest for decades gasped at the announcements; and for weeks later the coordinator of the show received rather mean calls, emails, and letters. Needles to say that team was not invited back; and the very next year the old guard judges returned, and things got back to 'normal'. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 All true, MikeD. We were discussing the comparison of changes in the 40 years of DCI Drum Corps and the breadth and scope of Changes in other youth competitive sport endeavors ( and others mentioned pro sports changes as well ) and I mentioned that there has been more wholesale " changes " in DCI Drum Corps in these last 40 years than just about any other youth competition sport out there that we can think of during this similar timeframe. This illustrates that when it comes to " changes ", insofar as the on field " product " is concerned, we are chock full of " changes " during these last 40 years. That said, there are areas where we have had unprecedented " status quo " and and one of these areas of " status quo " seems to me to be competitive placement stagnation at the very top where more than 80% of the DCI titles have been won by just 3 Corps since the mid 70's, despite several dozen Corps in these 40 years having made their World Class Division Title quest journey attempt during this time frame. We're all trying here to figure out what " changes " need to occur to breath new life and vigor into the placement competition, particularly at the very top. Nothing that I have seen put forth by either the G7 nor DCI seems to address this on going concern..... we're also in a current " status quo " mode when it comes to growing a fan base too. And I think just about everyone agrees that being " status quo " with the current size of the national fan base is both unacceptable as well as financially unsustainable. So " changes " need to take place to address this too, or the Big Tent will come done forever in our Traveling Show across the country. If you look at championships in general throughout drum corps history, you see a lot of the same players for large chunks of time, depending at least in part on the location of where the champs were held if you go way back. American Legion Nats im the 50's and early 60's...from 51-65, The Cadets were in the top 3 12 times. through the 50's you saw BS and St Vinnie's appearing often, and from the late 50's thorugh mid 60's the Cavies became a perennial top placing corps. In VFW-land, St Vinnie's was a power in the decade, winning 5 times, placing 2nd once and 3rd once between 51 and 57. From 56 onward through 65 (actually longer, but for this exerceise, 65) the Cavies were top 3 every year winning 5 times. Back then you had corps rise to prominence and then fall away...St Vinnie's, Audobon, the Royal Airs, Kilties Junior, Blessed Sac, etc...but while they were at the top of their game they remained at or close to the top most years. Back then not every corps went to every show every year, depending on the location of the show and their post sponsorships. In the DCI-era, the corps that got to the top have remained at or close to the top...they have not faded away and folded as happened in the past. Note too that this includes two of the corps that have been at the highest of levels since the 50's. These few top DCI corps have remained organizationally strong for decades. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) If you look at championships in general throughout drum corps history, you see a lot of the same players for large chunks of time, Yes, perhaps " chunks of time " meaning on average 5-12 years. The Drum Corps activity has never had a 35 year period EVER in its history... going as far back as you want, MikeD.....where 3 Corps alone have won over 80% of the titles in the Junior Drum Corps ranks.... AND unless " changes " take place off the field, there is the liklihood of this continuing for the next 35 years or so as well. Edited March 8, 2013 by BRASSO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecoats88 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Yes, perhaps " chunks of time " meaning on average 5-12 years. The Drum Corps activity has never had a 35 year period EVER in its history... going as far back as you want, MikeD.....where 3 Corps alone have won over 80% of the titles in the Junior Drum Corps ranks.... AND unless " changes " take place off the field, there is the liklihood of this continuing for the next 35 years or so as well. Hey drum corps for another 35 years wouldn't be such a bad thing. and if those 3 corps design and perform the best shows year in and year out then they deserve to win. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 And if those 3 corps design and perform the best shows, year in and year out, then they deserve to win. Ah, but do they also deserve more money from DCI to help them pay for better designers and better conditions for performers--which makes it easier for them to win? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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