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The majority of corps are better every year than the year previous. To move up in the rankings, a unit needs to be 'more-more-better' than the other units at their level.

So they need to be betterer? thumbup.gif

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My first impression of watching the Crown show on youtube was....... Who are you and what did you do with Carolina Crown?

Went to lunch then watched it again. I'm not sure what happened during that short hour, but my impression was completely upended.

This IS Crown and once again they are putting forth a show that is both challenging to the audience and it's membership. I can't wait to see it live, but in the meantime I think I will watch it again.

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So they need to be betterer? thumbup.gif

No..... Betterist!!;)

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I'm not sure history bears out the idea that the 12th place and 13th place corps were traditionally more clearly distinct from each other in quality than they are now. Let's take a closer look. Here, according to CorpsReps, are the relevant prelim/semi scores:

1978

12 -- 79.950 -- Kilties

13 -- 79.200 -- Freelancers

Difference: 0.750

1979

12 -- 81.900 -- Troopers

13 -- 81.700 -- Crossmen

Difference: 0.200

1980

12 -- 79.350 -- North Star

13 - 77.050 -- Blue Stars

Difference: 2.300

1981

12 -- 80.050 -- Freelancers

13 -- 79.850 -- North Star

Difference: 0.200

1986

12 -- 85.900 -- Troopers

13 -- 85.600 -- 27th Lancers

Difference: 0.300

2011

12 -- 86.500 -- Spirit of Atlanta

13 -- 83.400 -- Glassmen

Difference: 3.100

2012

12 -- 84.900 -- Crossmen

13 -- 84.600 -- Blue Stars

Difference: 0.300

If we group these by decade, the 12th and 13th place corps were separated by an average of:

1972-1981 -- 0.835

1982-1991 -- 0.630

1992-2001 -- 1.200

2002-2011 -- 1.025

So the past decade shows more competition between 12th and 13th than during the decade before, but not as much as in the two decades 1972-1991.

The smallest difference between 12th and 13th places, 0.000, i.e., a tie for 12th, was in 1977.

The largest difference between 12th and 13th places, 3.100, came just two years ago!

Great statistical info. You did your homework. Some years the difference between 12th and 13th is small point wise, but the ramifications can be huge. In 1978 many a fan was shocked to turn on PBS to watch finals and see Kilties had placed 12th. Most lists had BAC, Freelancers, Garfield, or perhaps Cavies in that spot. Don't ask a Crossmen alum from 1979 if he/she rejoiced when Troopers had a renaissance late in the season and made finals. In 1980 North Star just made finals, in 1981 I think they had a stronger show, but they placed 13th (they were on my prediction list as finalists both years). Some 27th Lancer alums still cite bus problems that meant less rehearsal time as the reason they could not fine tune some of their show and make finals in 1986, and if you look at how they placed that season, they're probably not all that far off the mark. Fast forward to 2011, I think it was pretty clear Spirit would return to finals and Glassmen would be 13th. In 2012, until Crossmen's score was announced, the debate was pretty fierce as to whether it would be Crossmen or Blue Stars.

Action between 10-15 makes the season exciting. A corps surging to the top from behind also makes life interesting. We're already seeing what could end up being an interesting season after one four corps show. I will bet there's more than a few of us with egg on our faces today after reading about the show and hearing complimentary reports about the Blue Knights. All winter long we heard reports of poor recruitment, a show that people predicted would not be great, and a downward spiral after last year's show which was not, to be nice, everyone's favorite. Turns out the show may better than most expected and predictions may have to be revamped. There could be some other corps that will prove to be exciting, and perhaps a few "sure things" that will disappoint.

Can't wait to get to a "movie theater near you" to see what Monday night brings and what the results of the West Coast shows will be.

Edited by Tim K
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God i remember 88/89/90 when only eleventh and twelfth were high eighties

It may be worth noting that only the top 6 corps broke 90 at Finals last year--the first time since 1996 that so few corps had done so. Maybe because last year was the first with the new sheets? But if that's the "new normal", then BK would have to do very well indeed, better than seventh, to achieve a score in the 90s. I would be delighted if they did.

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I remember years like 95 where it was iffy if bk were going to make it or not

You are absolutely right. It used to be that there was a big gap between 12 and 13, and all you had to do was be "good enough" to make it in (or hold your spot).

But now we have about 6-7 corps that will be fighting for 11 and 12... and they're all good... because they have to be BETTER than last year's 12th place corps - or they will be left out.

This is going to be a great year for Drum Corps!!

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I'm not sure history bears out the idea that the 12th place and 13th place corps were traditionally more clearly distinct from each other in quality than they are now. Let's take a closer look. Here, according to CorpsReps, are the relevant prelim/semi scores:

1972

12 -- 78.550 -- St. Andrew's Bridgemen

13 -- 78.450 -- Garfield Cadets

Difference: 0.100

1973

12 -- 76.550 -- Black Knights

13 -- 75.550 -- DeLaSalle Oaklands

Difference: 1.000

1974

12 -- 79.400 -- Blue Stars

13 -- 76.950 -- Polish Falcon Cadets

Difference: 2.450

1975

12 -- 79.600 -- Troopers

13 -- 79.000 -- Squires

Difference: 0.600

1976

12 -- 83.500 -- Seneca Optimists

13 -- 82.750 -- Troopers

Difference: 0.750

1977

12 -- 84.450 -- Garfield Cadets (tie)

12 -- 84.450 -- Kilties (tie)

Difference: 0.000

(Kingsmen at 14 with 83.600)

1978

12 -- 79.950 -- Kilties

13 -- 79.200 -- Freelancers

Difference: 0.750

1979

12 -- 81.900 -- Troopers

13 -- 81.700 -- Crossmen

Difference: 0.200

1980

12 -- 79.350 -- North Star

13 - 77.050 -- Blue Stars

Difference: 2.300

1981

12 -- 80.050 -- Freelancers

13 -- 79.850 -- North Star

Difference: 0.200

1982

12 -- 83.100 -- Cavaliers

13 -- 81.100 -- Suncoast Sound

Difference: 2.000

1983

12 -- 78.700 -- Sky Ryders

13 -- 78.600 -- Crossmen

Difference: 0.100

1984

12 -- 85.900 -- Velvet Knights

13 -- 85.200 -- Troopers

Difference: 0.700

1985

12 -- 85.900 -- Freelancers

13 -- 85.200 -- 27th Lancers

Difference: 0.700

1986

12 -- 85.900 -- Troopers

13 -- 85.600 -- 27th Lancers

Difference: 0.300

1987

12 -- 85.300 -- Sky Ryders

13 -- 84.700 -- Florida Wave

Difference: 0.600

1988

12 -- 86.600 -- Sky Ryders

13 -- 86.400 -- Dutch Boy

Difference: 0.200

1989

12 -- 85.800 -- Crossmen

13 -- 85.500 -- Dutch Boy

Difference: 0.300

1990

12 -- 86.300 -- Dutch Boy

13 -- 85.400 -- Blue Knights

Difference: 0.900

1991

12 -- 85.100 -- Sky Ryders

13 -- 84.600 -- Dutch Boy

Difference: 0.500

1992

12 -- 84.000 -- Freelancers

13 -- 83.900 -- Glassmen

Difference: 0.100

1993

11 -- 84.200 -- Colts / Glassmen (semifinal tie)

13 -- 83.100 -- Velvet Knights

Difference: 1.100

1994

12 -- 83.000 -- Colts

13 -- 82.600 -- Boston Crusaders

Difference: 0.400

1995

12 -- 81.900 -- Magic of Orlando

13 -- 81.300 -- Blue Knights

Difference: 0.600

1996

12 -- 84.600 -- Blue Knights

13 -- 82.700 -- Glassmen

Difference: 1.900

1997

12 -- 85.900 -- Carolina Crown

13 -- 84.100 -- Colts

Difference: 1.800

1998

12 -- 86.900 -- Carolina Crown

13 -- 85.000 -- Magic of Orlando

Difference: 1.900

1999

12 -- 85.200 -- Colts

13 -- 83.000 -- Bluecoats

Difference: 2.200

2000

12 -- 85.150 -- Bluecoats

13 -- 84.950 -- Southwind

Difference: 0.100

2001

12 -- 85.950 -- Colts

13 -- 84.050 -- Spirit from JSU

Difference: 1.900

2002

12 -- 85.950 -- Seattle Cascades

13 -- 85.500 -- Blue Knights

Difference: 0.450

2003

12 -- 85.500 -- Spirit from JSU

13 -- 85.350 -- Blue Knights

Difference: 0.150

2004

12 -- 86.375 -- Glassmen

13 -- 86.300 -- Spirit from JSU

Difference: 0.075

2005

12 -- 85.750 -- Spirit from JSU

13 -- 84.075 -- Colts

Difference: 1.675

2006

12 -- 85.275 -- Spirit from JSU

13 -- 83.050 -- Colts

Difference: 2.225

2007

12 -- 85.500 -- Spirit from JSU

13 -- 84.500 -- The Academy

Difference: 1.000

2008

12 -- 86.375 -- Madison Scouts

13 -- 85.950 -- Crossmen

Difference: 0.425

2009

12 -- 85.900 -- Troopers

13 -- 85.600 -- Colts

Difference: 0.300

2010

12 -- 86.500 -- Glassmen

13 -- 84.650 -- Colts

Difference: 0.850

2011

12 -- 86.500 -- Spirit of Atlanta

13 -- 83.400 -- Glassmen

Difference: 3.100

2012

12 -- 84.900 -- Crossmen

13 -- 84.600 -- Blue Stars

Difference: 0.300

If we group these by decade, the 12th and 13th place corps were separated by an average of:

1972-1981 -- 0.835

1982-1991 -- 0.630

1992-2001 -- 1.200

2002-2011 -- 1.025

So the past decade shows more competition between 12th and 13th than during the decade before, but not as much as in the two decades 1972-1991.

The smallest difference between 12th and 13th places, 0.000, i.e., a tie for 12th, was in 1977.

The largest difference between 12th and 13th places, 3.100, came just two years ago!

I like seeing the Colts peppered in there so much; I hope to see them do great this year. Their show should prove to be very entertaining. :cheer:

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