chris ncsu Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 DCI is not an art exhibition. It is a competition. So the fact that various corps are trying to copy the current BD formula is simply a reflection of the fact that the judges are rewarding it. And conversely, nobody copied Cadets 06-08 because it was not rewarded. So the copy cats tell you that DCI judges like BD's formula, but you already knew that. It doesn't tell you anything about whether the rival design teams found it worthy, just that they want to win. Really, DCI has always been like this. Remember the "first we zigged, then everybody zigged..." t-shirt? The judges loved the 80's Cadets and everyone tried to copy it. Same for 90's BD. Same for 00's Cavaliers. Personally I think BD's current flavor is reaching it's expiration date. Crown, Cadets, et. al. would be better served figuring out the next "zag". /looks at Crown.../ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 DCI is not an art exhibition. It is a competition. So the fact that various corps are trying to copy the current BD formula is simply a reflection of the fact that the judges are rewarding it. And conversely, nobody copied Cadets 06-08 because it was not rewarded. So the copy cats tell you that DCI judges like BD's formula, but you already knew that. It doesn't tell you anything about whether the rival design teams found it worthy, just that they want to win. Really, DCI has always been like this. Remember the "first we zigged, then everybody zigged..." t-shirt? The judges loved the 80's Cadets and everyone tried to copy it. Same for 90's BD. Same for 00's Cavaliers. Personally I think BD's current flavor is reaching it's expiration date. Crown, Cadets, et. al. would be better served figuring out the next "zag". Cadets took 2nd place in 07....not exactly a judges rejection. Cadets opened the door in many ways during 06-08....they paid somewhat of a price but it paved the way for many of the designs we have now. I personally think the NPR production with the stage set was too far of a reach, but I applauded the effort. And more importantly, it isn't much of a reach to say that "This I Believe" is all over the current CC production. Whether BD's "current flavor" expires soon or not, there is sufficient proof that designing outside of the norm is very competitive and smart designers will look to improve on the effort. Having said that...BD is not likely to depart in some other direction unless their productions and reception get stale....and there is no indication of that happening. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Having trouble with this contention too. Even though intuitively, corps usually do mimic what wins, I do not see other corps mimicking the unique design aspects that have characterized recent BD title winning shows. Maybe some examples would shed light on this. Not that I agree with it, but a lot of people here on DCP have said that Crown has "done a Blue Devils" this year with their show. I guess you are not in that camp either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 No. It has a lot more voice, but voice is not a design feature that belongs (either exclusively or annually) to the Blue Devils. But because of the Dada show, I see why some draw that analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Other than the fact that they are using narration, I don't see how Crown's show this year maps to Cadets 07. I personally think the musical arrangement is a step towards Blue Devils' style, with less focus on staying true to the original, more on hitting de-facto compulsory skills, and far more cuts and overlaps than Crown has had in years, if ever. Compare the musical arrangement vs the source material to 2010 or especially 2012. But visually, it still looks very much like a Crown show to me, just more refined (as they have been becoming each year, IMO). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Thats simply nonsense. Since when does " deviation from the norm " always result in " progress " ? History is replete of examples where deviation from the norm resulted in societal regression, not societal progress. Some changes indeed lead to progress. But the notion that " without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible", is frankly preposterous. The only thing we can say with certainty is that deviation from the norm consitutes what we can correctly call " change ". We can not call " deviation from the norm " consituting " progress " however. Sometimes there is progress, others times no progress. In fact, the deviation from the norm " can sometimes lead to regression, not progress. There are lots of people throughout history that unwittingly agreed to " change" and to eventually learn to " deviate from the norm " that was then established by their country's new rulers. Unfortunately however, millions wound up dead under their rulers " change " governance, and this situation can hardly be deemed human " progress " today in retrospect. Your entire comment here is based on a premise that isn't stated in the post to which you are responded. Nowhere did he say "all deviation from the norm results in progress". He simply stated that if there is never deviation from the norm, then there is no possibility for progress. Nice try though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Cadets took 2nd place in 07....not exactly a judges rejection. Cadets opened the door in many ways during 06-08....they paid somewhat of a price but it paved the way for many of the designs we have now. I personally think the NPR production with the stage set was too far of a reach, but I applauded the effort. And more importantly, it isn't much of a reach to say that "This I Believe" is all over the current CC production. Whether BD's "current flavor" expires soon or not, there is sufficient proof that designing outside of the norm is very competitive and smart designers will look to improve on the effort. Having said that...BD is not likely to depart in some other direction unless their productions and reception get stale....and there is no indication of that happening. Cadets 06-08 average placement: 4.0 BD 08-12 average placement: 1.4 Pretty obvious which show style was rewarded more by the judges, no? I also don't see "This I Believe" and "E=mc2" as very similar designs, although both use voice. Notably, Cadets 07 had its own script and frequently would pause the action so that actors could recite their lines. The generally terrible quality of the script and the way it chopped up the source material (e.g. turning Blue Shades into a simulated Cadets rehearsal) make me pretty happy that this didn't catch on. Crown's use of voice this year is pretty similar to BD 12, where it's mostly a "percussion" voice that's not necessarily the musical or visual focus at any given moment. It's also taken from the EotB source material, which I think is wiser than a drum corps instructor having a go as a script writer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) Your entire comment here is based on a premise that isn't stated in the post to which you are responded. Nowhere did he say "all deviation from the norm results in progress". He simply stated that if there is never deviation from the norm, then there is no possibility for progress. Nice try though. His exact words are " without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible " As such, I did respond as I saw fit and in keeping with my understanding of what he said and what he believes. Nice try though. Edited June 27, 2013 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris ncsu Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 :huh:/> Other than the fact that they are using narration, I don't see how Crown's show this year maps to Cadets 07. I personally think the musical arrangement is a step towards Blue Devils' style, with less focus on staying true to the original, more on hitting de-facto compulsory skills, and far more cuts and overlaps than Crown has had in years, if ever. Compare the musical arrangement vs the source material to 2010 or especially 2012. But visually, it still looks very much like a Crown show to me, just more refined (as they have been becoming each year, IMO). My main point in linking Crown to Cadets 05-08 was to argue against the point that nobody took up what Cadets were exploring in 05-08 because "it failed". It had a 50% success rate, and I think other corps have been using narration and voice in a similar way as Cadets 05-08. And it's not as if Cadets were the first to try -- obviously, BD 2005, and Crown and Boston the year before, for example. And it plays a huge role in the current Crown show, even if their arranging of music and visual staging is inching closer to current BD. It's not a direct lineage, but I can perceive these inspirations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddyt Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 /looks at Crown.../ Heh. And 2007 wasn't too far from winning the championship, so I think it was pretty well rewarded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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