Slotting 2013

[BozzlyB]

Whew, that all was an exhausting read!

[Pete Freedman]

Whew, that all was an exhausting read!

Yeah! Sorry I +'ed you before reading your sig.

[13strokeroll]

Some things never get old, eh?

It would be one thing if you knew what you were talking about and were just talking over everyone's head with terms like "regulated process" and "process validity" with the hubris of the awful professor who can't teach. But you aren't. You're just a guy trying to make everyone think that. And nobody is buying it. Please state your expertise for the record (i.e. coursework in statistics) as I have done.

Is this the specific form of observer bias you claim leaps out from the raw 2013 DCI raw scores like a stripper from a cake?

This is absolutely false. It indicates nothing more than that some judges score higher than others. This is a normal variation and certainly does not indicate incompetence or cheating.

You're not even mentioning whether the same judges were involved or different judges. It's even possible that a judge might judges everyone high at one show, then correct himself/herself at the next show (presumably after seeing that their scores were consistently high). Still no harm, no foul. No incompetence (at least none to speak of) and certainly no cheating.

What? It certainly is not evidence of any such thing. It is only evidence of some judges judging higher than others. This is 1. not slotting, and 2. perfectly acceptable (withing reasonable limits that people at DCI presumably discuss at length.)

I'm no expert on those sports, but from the press available about those judging systems, the statisticians appear to be sharply criticizing that method. Because it appears to correct for bias but does not actually work. In particular it has been found that the most accurate judges (however they measure that) tend to judge a bit higher than others, resulting in their scores being thrown out.

I believe those sports should consider the DCI model of breaking down the judging into several different categories and having judges specialize.

As soon as you've demonstrated your expertise in statistics I'll think about taking that ridiculous statement seriously.

So? Of course they would. We have only been talking about the individual scores from shows, not means. Irrelevant obfuscation. (Did anyone even perform a mean on any of these scores? Or talk about it on this thread?)

That's hilarious, especially at the end of such a beautiful work of obfuscation. Now you claim that you are supporting my end result? Because the biases cancel each other out over a season? (See how easy it is to say things in plain English when you're not trying to BS people?)

So, what are you saying is my "end result"? That the scores at finals are reasonably accurate? Did I ever bring that up? I didn't even claim the scores were unbiased; in fact I said they probably are biased.

Masters degrees in Manufacturing Operations, Industrial Engineering, and an MBA. Currently Director of Quality Control and Inspection for a global manufacturer with repeatable inspection methods for both concrete and aesthetic criteria.

[garfield]

So, after reading all this, is there slotting in DCI or not?

I never, ever thought I'd find a thread that spins eyeballs like the 990's thread.

But this one tops that by a mile, IMO.

:tongue:/>

Edited July 23, 2013 by garfield

[seen-it-all]

So, after reading all this, is there slotting in DCI or not?

Yes. They slot the best corps at the top and it works its way down.

[MikeD]

Yes. They slot the best corps at the top and it works its way down.

I think it is pretty amazing how the corps with the highest score ALWAYS comes in first, while the corps with the lowest ALWAYS comes in last. You would think that at least once in a while the lowest score would place first or something.

:lookaround:/>

[garfield]

I think it is pretty amazing how the corps with the highest score ALWAYS comes in first, while the corps with the lowest ALWAYS comes in last. You would think that at least once in a while the lowest score would place first or something.

/>

[13strokeroll]

So, after reading all this, is there slotting in DCI or not?

I never, ever thought I'd find a thread that spins eyeballs like the 990's thread.

But this one tops that by a mile, IMO.

:tongue:/>/>

Sorry about that - funny how trying to demonstrate that it's an irrelevant discussion can be hijacked by the unenlightened.

[corpsband]

I think it is pretty amazing how the corps with the highest score ALWAYS comes in first, while the corps with the lowest ALWAYS comes in last. You would think that at least once in a while the lowest score would place first or something.

/>

You just out-Ream'ed Ream :-)

[Jeff Ream]

Or, far more likely, you don't understand how the judging system works. It's not based on randomly generated numbers. The "additional factor" you're looking for is called criteria-based evaluation.

Maths are hard, yo.

and with that, neighborhoods develop. these corps are comparable, so they are neighborhood A. these corps are comparable, so they are neighborhood B and so. Sometimes you can have a corps or two in between neighborhoods.

you have 1-3, 6-8, and then say about 11-14 as neighborhoods...and probably 17-19 as well.

so within those neighborhoods, movement can happen. Again this year we are seeing many examples ofpeople judging their own sheet, not the overall number. GE, Percussion and guard seem to be the best at it.

Sometimes, a new ending or a big change can cause a corps to change neighborhoods. Phantom, until about 10 days before finals in 2008 was in neighborhood B. Then drum majors started dying, fans drove the corps on with incredible reactions, and with the help of BD's percussive implosion, rode the wave. Phanton rising up to 3rd the other year is another example.

it's 7/23. there's much more cleaning to do, changesto put in......relax