Jeff Ream Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Probably the second, but possibly the first. A brilliant staffer who can "work" the judges in critique will get their unit further than a staffer who is not good (or downright dreadful) in critique. The art of critique (for both a judge & designer/staffer) is a very fine skill set that some have problems with. It's one of those "uncomfortable truths" that the most idealistic of fans hope isn't really the case, but it can very well mean the difference in a tenth or two (which could sway a placement, or even a championship). i think it's also a case of the staff getting all on one page. Paul has his way, and he and JD work well together as time has shown. But Pete is new to both of them, and Joey and Sal are new to SCV. give em a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 You were on a roll until you posted this. Audience Engagement is on the sheets. I already posted at length about how SCV is a legit contender for #1 in GE Music, and Audience Engagement is #1 on the sheet. This was done ON PURPOSE for the SOLE REASON to reward shows JUST LIKE SCV IS DOING. That the judges refuse to understand it is a different issue entirely, but consider yourself learned. agreed. Cesario said there some issues last year getting judges to understand the new sheets, and I think GE is where there may still be an issue. But remember, audience engagement is justgetting the crowd to go Madison on you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland1 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 incorrect. I'd say visual is an issue, and while brass has power, there are issues. First year, new arranger, techs etc...brass may take a little time to gel. Drumline is on season 3 of Paul. It's a beast, but the fact that the book is so musical may actually hurt it......too often musicality is not rewarded downstairs. and really, to take it to the next level, the theme needs fleshed out. Great it's Les Miz. Enjoy the show to no end....but it's lacking that one thing to takeit over the emotional edge...which in turn could drive uit's scores up. story what is the issue with visual? is it execution? is it design? i do agree that adding a story would really push them into the crown range of scores, but i dont see a story being worked into this show this late in the season. although there will be changes, hopefully mostly the ending, and it very well could be les mis storyesque. like an actual "do you hear the people sing?" that isnt cheery like it currently is in the show, but powerful and a satisfying close to the show, with visual references to the ending of the musical/movie perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Can't or won't? There's a difference. It is possible that a top 3 corps could have an off night and SCV has the best show of the season. It happens. This time last year, up until Allentown, no one expected Phantom to be in the Top 3 at finals, Cadets were a solid 3rd place candidate, but it happened. Also, it was not a matter of peaking as far as Cadets are concerned. They did have good shows in Indy but the fact of eth matter is Phantom surged. Cadets, BD, and Crown have been closer score wise this year and the victories have been hard fought, so while a top 3 placement is not impossible, it is unlikely. However, what I think has happened is people are expecting that a show similar to 1988 or 89 will have similar results, but "Miss Saigon" was similar and it only placed 4th. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srb30a Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) You're not hearing facts because...umm...there are no "facts". The entire activity is a matter of opinion. Informed opinion and (we hope) relatively unbiased opinion. But --in the end -- it's what someone "thinks" about each corps performance and design. There are no touchdowns, 3 point shots, home runs, fastest times, etc.. This is why I have always felt that every corps in each class should have to perform a given show in addition to their own,or be given a set of criteria that hasto be incorporated into a show that would be judged in addition to their own show Edited July 23, 2013 by srb30a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 incorrect. I'd say visual is an issue, and while brass has power, there are issues. First year, new arranger, techs etc...brass may take a little time to gel. Drumline is on season 3 of Paul. It's a beast, but the fact that the book is so musical may actually hurt it......too often musicality is not rewarded downstairs. and really, to take it to the next level, the theme needs fleshed out. Great it's Les Miz. Enjoy the show to no end....but it's lacking that one thing to takeit over the emotional edge...which in turn could drive uit's scores up. story Brass staff and arranger are on their second year together. So just one year behind Paul arranging for the drums. And Pete has been around since 2006. So pretty good group to have together 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91FSU08 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) incorrect. I'd say visual is an issue, and while brass has power, there are issues. First year, new arranger, techs etc...brass may take a little time to gel. Drumline is on season 3 of Paul. It's a beast, but the fact that the book is so musical may actually hurt it......too often musicality is not rewarded downstairs. and really, to take it to the next level, the theme needs fleshed out. Great it's Les Miz. Enjoy the show to no end....but it's lacking that one thing to takeit over the emotional edge...which in turn could drive uit's scores up. story This is year 2 for J.D. Shaw I believe?! SCV and Madison are bringing the house down with crowd appeal, engagement and crowd reaction!! The Blue Devils and Crown might as well be performing for crickets because it seems like that's all they are going to get this year. Give me 2009, '10 or '12 Crown any day over this year and Give me the 2011, '97, '96, '88, '82 Blue Devils over Rite of Spring. If they both can clean like demons, I think SCV COULD pull it out by the end and Scouts might make top 5! For SCV the ability of their hornline to march from an ensemble standpoint will be the tell-tale. All sections of the SCV drum corps are wonderful and exciting. There is not a more engaging show by design this year than SCV with Madison a close second. The Cadets are achieving like no other right now. With Cadets in this position SCV will be hard pressed to win, then again look at the 1988 Madison Scouts who were 4th at DCM Championships in '88 four weeks prior to Finals only to win it by the end. All I can say is that you never know. SCV was less than 2 points away from BD in San Antonio. SCV has those kind of memorable moments in a program that make for a great champion and they WILL achieve at a championship caliber by the end. Cadets are playing great music with an intriguing visual program while marching, drumming, spinning and playing their arse off. I think it will wind up being between Cadets and SCV at the very end. Crown has too many "what the heck" moments and from the high-box view not very intriguing IMO. The BD show never settles .. . . . ever . . . plus designed visually more like an indoor show, I like the white poles but that's about it. It's great to have an opinion. :-) Edited July 24, 2013 by 91FSU08 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) agreed. Cesario said there some issues last year getting judges to understand the new sheets, and I think GE is where there may still be an issue. But remember, audience engagement is justgetting the crowd to go Madison on you theres issues EVERY year with judges understanding sheets.....every year...every caption....every circuit...every level................so his statement wasn't any far stretch...at all :blink:/>.....oh yeah......EVERY DECADE ALSO...LOL Edited July 24, 2013 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normy diploome Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 They have as much/more to offer content wise than SOME blue units: Bluecoats, Blue Knights, Blue Stars, Blue Saints. They definitely do not have as much/more to offer than Blue Devils. Or Cadets, or Crown. They are executing well, but this show (from what I've seen, which I'll admit is not a ton) does not really come that close to the depth of design than the current Top 3 have. Also, the current top 3 mostly out-perform Vanguard in everything but percussion consistently. I haven't seen any of the corps performances in over a week, but the depth, effect, and demand of Cadets, BD, and Crown kinda exceed SCV by a (relatively) significant amount. On top of that, a corps achieving a more impressive book will outscore a corps achieving less impressive book all the time." Certainly Pete Weber and Sal Salas have given us a textbook drill for staging and showcasing. However, the feet aren't quite maximizing the design yet. While Santa Clara and the Rennicks have an impressive drum line, this year is an exceptional year for percussion. However, SCV overuses the synth to underscore the low brass which is not at the depth which made Phantom, JD Shaw, and the Buicks renown. Turn down the synths so we can hear the horns. Note how little Crown uses electronics (perhaps to the detriment of their percussion score.) But you can hear Crown's tubas all triple tonguing. Not so with SCV. Even Cadets have begun to shift the electronic usage because of their great hornline and front ensemble to go with the rest of the battery. And BD is still getting away with judge's numbers despite the many, many holes and lack of recovery from the same while the judges are dazzled by their CG (was that drop deliberate or not?) Keep cleaning and SCV will get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 The Blue Devils and Crown might as well be performing for crickets because it seems like that's all they are going to get this year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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