EllmerFUDD Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Wasn't going to post here for a while but this one caught me.... So what would be your response to an non-American talking about the F&*^ing American Flag... Seriously after reading your sig, you;re not representing SCV well at all.... Guess no one told you to get respect, show respect.... Please have a nice day and enjoy all 2013 Drum Corps has to offer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seen-it-all Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) The original Broadway production did not use the actual flag but one very close to it. The Schubert theater management was concerned that their French clientele would feel disrespected. The man whose company built the multi-leveled cantilevered stage for that production is a personal friend of mine and he shared the story of the discussions. Well, since the only image of this alleged flag is a diagram posted by the OP (and not a REAL performance photo), then how are we supposed to know if the flag in question is a "real" French flag and not a visual representation of one? AND he mentions that the solid color red, white, and blue flags being tossed behind the props near the end of the show is an issue as well, and they're just solid colored flags. I'm not sure how that is supposed to be a desecration. Edited August 6, 2013 by seen-it-all 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shhmatt Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Well, since the only image of this alleged flag is a diagram posted by the OP (and not a REAL performance photo), then how are we supposed to know if the flag in question is a "real" French flag and not a visual representation of one? ^This 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) According to wikipedia's flag desecration topic site: "A July 2010 law makes it a crime to desecrate the French national flag in a public place, but also to distribute images of a flag desecration, even when done in a private setting. On 22 December 2010, an Algerian national was the first person to be convicted under the new status, and ordered to pay a €750 after breaking the pole of a flag hung in the Alpes-Maritimes prefecture a day prior." Interpret that any way you like. Speaking of history and flag appropriateness, French Novelist Victor Hugo's novel " Les Miserables " did not take place during the French Revolution of 1789, nor was he depicting the French Revolution. The historical setting for Les Mis was the Paris June Rebellion of 1832,over 40 years after the Revolution, and 2 years after the defeat of Napoleon at Waterloo, a tryrant, but who many of the Paris Revolutionaties admired. The Flag that actually was used by the Paris revolutionaries in 1832 June Rebellion was all Red, signifying Blood, Courage, and Valor. Ironically, they did not use the Tricolors of the National Flag of the France, that King Louis- Phillipe embraced during the actual rebellion ( won by the Parisian authorties). Hugo himself arrived in the section of town of Paris just as the Parisian authorities secured order and control after putting down the rebellion. He saw the bloodshed, the bodies ( 800 rebels died ) and it made an impression on him, and later inspired his Novel. The French Flag tricolors of Red, White and Blue, have both religious significance as well as political and traditional significance. Suffice to say that White represented Peace, Purity, and Innocence ( or the Virgin Mary for those religiously inclined ). White was the official Color of the French Monarchy in France. Blue represents Justice, Intregrity, Honor...(Saint Martin) but it was the Color of Red, that was the Flag color of Parisian rebels in the Paris June Rebellion of 1932. They did not, and would not, have been flying the French tricolor Flag of Red, White, and Blue. King Louis- Phillippe military forces flew the French Tricolors National Flag in Paris in 1832 Paris June Rebellion. Victor Hugo makes no mention of such a Tricolor French Flag on any pages of his Novel however..... That said, the depiction of the French Tricolor Flag by SCV this season in their show is a thoroughly minor historical sidebar to what is otherwise a wonderful and enjoyable production from them this year, imo. Edited August 6, 2013 by BRASSO 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchcoffeeman Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 But neither the Bluecoats nor the Troopers use actual American flags but flags which have been amended to seem to be American flags. Look more closely. And yes, there were complaints. Check the Troopers thread about the comments judges made on the official DCI contest tapes in the early season. Yes, I'm very familiar: Troopers spun/tossed a (single) stylized American flag. Troopers get complaints, and make changes. Bluecoats spin/toss (multiple) stylized American flags. No one seems to have a problem with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashevillemurphy Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Is this the silk we are discussing? If not, can a picture of the silk that we are discussing be posted? (One would think that evidence of any infraction would need to be brought with the accusation. Though this step alone would probably reduce the number of threads on DCP) The flags that are being discussed are the ones that appear from behind the props backfield that some have compared to fireworks ... after they (SCV) tossed one color silks in solid red, solid white and solid blue there is a unison toss of what appear to be French flags ... then the guard comes from behind the props with the "stylized version" that have a fleur de lis superimposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drilltech1 Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 The flags that are being discussed are the ones that appear from behind the props backfield that some have compared to fireworks ... after they (SCV) tossed one color silks in solid red, solid white and solid blue there is a unison toss of what appear to be French flags ...It is then the guard comes from behind the props with the "stylized version" that have a fleur de lis superimposed. [/quote ] I agree that an actual photo would be helpful. I did not find a video of the Allentown performances I witnessed on Friday and Sunday. The move in question has been added in the past week since this video of Round Rock TOC was done. The French flag is tossed after this series of tossees of other flags at 10:22 in the show. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TDoo9WgpVE Brasso is correct. To use the current national flag is also anachronistic to the times of which Victor Hugo wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NakedEye Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Do those very concerned with this know with 100% certainty that the flags used for the one toss in the back and for the soloist at the very end are 100% regulation French flags? If the dimensions were off by 1", would this then make them a stylized prop? And how would that differ from the souvenir flags that the French public wave with cheerful abandon at sporting and patriotic events? Like those, the ones in the show are used as a sign of jubilation... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geluf Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) The French flag is tossed after this series of tossees of other flags at 10:22 in the show. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TDoo9WgpVE I must be missing something because I don't see it. I see a bunch of solid color flags get tossed around and then the guard comes out with the stylized one. Edit: Whoops! I understand now. This video doesn't have it. Misread the post. Edited August 6, 2013 by geluf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shhmatt Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I must be missing something because I don't see it. I see a bunch of solid color flags get tossed around and then the guard comes out with the stylized one. They didn't intend for that video to contain the proof, just a reference for where to watch in the show for the flag in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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