perc2100 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I think the biggest change in DCI Drum Corps over the next 2 decades is that we'll find many more women in positions of leadership, ie staff, boards, directorships, judging, show design, marketing, promotion, show sponsorships, etc than the paltry numbers of women we see today at the top in DC at present. DCI in the coming years will find sufficient numbers of woman talented enough, qualified enough, and motivated enough to take on these all important decision making roles to help forge the future of DCI. Its" progressive change " thats long overdue in DCI, and an aspect that few of the " good ol boys " in DCI can no longer continue to try and justify in their own minds, it seems to me. That would be awesome! My wife is a band director, and it really seems as though the music education world is still somewhat of a good ol' boys club in some regards. Even the last half dozen years or so I have seen/heard first hand colleagues who talk down to women, question competency of women based mostly on gender, etc. It happens constantly in politics as well (look at all of the cable news ding dongs who freaked out at the thought of Clinton running for president as a grandmother, yet said NOTHING about Romney running for president with a HUGE family), and I think it is still an ugly sect of society that many people either ignore, or naively think doesn't exist. I don't know if there are any behind-the-scenes shenanigans in DCI that have held women back, but I think the culture of the activity still seems like a male-dominated world: even with that perception, and w/out any strong female role models leading anywhere in the activity (design, instruction, direction, etc) it is difficult for women, I think, to break in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I think part of the problem lies with looking at who makes up the membership, percentage-wise...how many female battery do you see on snare, tenor or bass? Even brass lines have far more males than females. Until the base of females expands to a large degree, I thnk the percentages of leadership females is going to lag...hopefully it will follow your post above. Good point, and I've not seen any hard data that breaks down participation by gender: I haven't seen hard facts on ratio of male/female membership participation. Why do you think that is? Next year will be year 10 for me teaching at my high school, and we've always had ladies in the battery, at all sections. We've had female section leaders in both battery & front ensemble, and it hasn't been uncommon to have ladies in snare, tenor, and bass line in any given year. Why do you think more ladies are not marching in the battery: is it due to not being as good as guys, not many of them being interested in participating, ladies feeling as though they aren't as welcome, etc? I don't know, but I think those questions are the heart of why women don't seem to have as large a role in DCI as men Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) Good point, and I've not seen any hard data that breaks down participation by gender: I haven't seen hard facts on ratio of male/female membership participation. Why do you think that is? Next year will be year 10 for me teaching at my high school, and we've always had ladies in the battery, at all sections. We've had female section leaders in both battery & front ensemble, and it hasn't been uncommon to have ladies in snare, tenor, and bass line in any given year. Why do you think more ladies are not marching in the battery: is it due to not being as good as guys, not many of them being interested in participating, ladies feeling as though they aren't as welcome, etc? I don't know, but I think those questions are the heart of why women don't seem to have as large a role in DCI as men I wish I knew...my daughter played percussion in HS, was bass drum section leader as a sophomore before becoming a DM her junior and senior years...and the band ALWAYS has had females spread all over the percussion section, especially bass drum, for whatever reason. But you look at DCI corps, and the battery performers are often 90%+ male. When she went to the Vivace marching Band camp at West Chester as a soph, there were a hundred or more battery players at the camp...almost all of them guys.The top players were picked to participate with the winds in a field show...they were taught by Tom Float for a couple of days...she was the ONLY girl chosen to be part of that special section. Tom called her his "bass chick". :-) I do know that when people ask what instrument my daughter plays, and I say percussion, I still get the surprised "Oh, a girl drummer!!!!" kind of comments, so there is a long way to go to even that out! Edited April 29, 2014 by MikeD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) I do know that when people ask what instrument my daughter plays, and I say percussion, I still get the surprised "Oh, a girl drummer!!!!" kind of comments, so there is a long way to go to even that out! Change can be slow... but the Blue Devils recently had a female ( formerly of the Blue Knights ) that made the snare line of the Blue Devils a year or so ago. She beat out dozens of guys no doubt to get that coveted spot in this snare line. Edited April 29, 2014 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Funny on the females in the snare line. Know of two DCA corps in the late 70s/early 80s who had them. Erie Thunderbirds in the late 70s and (I think) Westshore about the same time. Funny thing about Westshore is I just can't remember Lauren on snare but just read about that on the corps FB page IIRC. If she was snare when I was there just didn't think anything about it. The dude who drove a jack hammer in real life was more memorable. He had arms like Popeye and we wondered how he didn't drive the sticks thru the drum head.... Edited April 30, 2014 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) I see. Now I better understand that your reasoning isn't based upon" any sexist notions" of yours, rather" there are just not that many woman talented enough nor qualified enough to do these things by now." ( ps... I also forgot to mention, that you said that women " don't want these jobs" that require "talent" and the neccessary "qualifications" ) Glad we could clear this up by now too! ah but Mister selective cut....you left out the words where I said "if she wanted the job". So, while you then try to espouse your grand knowledge and put thoughts into my mouth i didn't say by deleting words I typed, you've proven yet again you will go to any lengths to make yourself look right, when in fact you boldly eliminated words in your cut and paste job. This sir is why you get the amunt of #### you do on here. You selectively quote to suit your needs. If I wanted your brand of ########, I'd ask for it. Therefore if you're going to quote, leave ALL of the words in...it makes you look like less of a blowhard Edited April 30, 2014 by Jeff Ream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) ah but Mister selective cut....you left out the words where I said "if she wanted the job". So, while you then try to espouse your grand knowledge and put thoughts into my mouth i didn't say by deleting words I typed, you've proven yet again you will go to any lengths to make yourself look right, when in fact you boldly eliminated words in your cut and paste job. This sir is why you get the amunt of #### you do on here. You selectively quote to suit your needs. If I wanted your brand of ########, I'd ask for it. Therefore if you're going to quote, leave ALL of the words in...it makes you look like less of a blowhard Ok. I get your point, ie " there are few woman in positions of leadership in DCI ( Directorships, Executive Boards of Corps, Show Designs, Executive Directorships of DCI, in the booth on TV telecasts, in the judging ranks, in the Brass and Percussion Staffings, in the DCI ) because the Woman don't want these jobs ". There, I added the " they don't want these jobs " to your previously stated reasons re. talent and qualifications. Happy now ?. Edited April 30, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmroth1 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Death Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Ok. I get your point, ie " there are few woman in positions of leadership in DCI ( Directorships, Executive Boards of Corps, Show Designs, Executive Directorships of DCI, in the booth on TV telecasts, in the judging ranks, in the Brass and Percussion Staffings, in the DCI ) because the Woman don't want these jobs ". There, I added the " they don't want these jobs " to your previously stated reasons re. talent and qualifications. Happy now ?. how about just quoted my exact words and stop trying to put your spin on it. I mean, i know, i'm asking the impossible. if women wanted these jobs, we'd see them there. Sorry to ruin your dream of finding something in DCI that was truly a conspiracy. because if you want to get technical sue Keinhold runs DCI, she just doesn't have Dan's title. But ###### if that place would survive without her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 how about just quoted my exact words and stop trying to put your spin on it. I mean, i know, i'm asking the impossible. if women wanted these jobs, we'd see them there. Sorry to ruin your dream of finding something in DCI that was truly a conspiracy. because if you want to get technical sue Keinhold runs DCI, she just doesn't have Dan's title. But ###### if that place would survive without her If she runs DCI why doesn't she have Dan's title? Either she doesn't as you imply, or she should have the title. If she truly does and doesn't have the title, that kind of supports BRASSO's point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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