World wide block on DCI DVDs/CD...?

[cixelsyd]

How can it not be financially feasible? How much does it cost to create, package, and ship a Blu-Ray disk? Look how freaking much DCI is getting for it! (I'm not begrudging them that at all). I have never heard that in general limited runs of Blu-Ray disks are not financially feasible, although of course you may need to go through a different company.

Consider runs of 10, 100, or 1000. (We don't know the demand). Yes you would use different companies/methods for each of these scenarios, but how could it possibly cost more than $132 per item to create?

Is it prohibitively expensive to create a media set as a copy of the domestic one, deleting the BD show and (perhaps) adding the Troopers?.

Can someone explain to me what's so expensive about this? ...or is DCI just not making enough off their loyal international fans to bother with? That's my concern.

As it would be a different product, it would require a separate license.

Licensing cost is the killer for a short run product. If the quantity is too small, sales revenue might not even cover the minimum licensing fee.

[skywhopper]

Blu-ray utilizes the Advanced Access Content System (AACS). This system is designed to prevent illegal copying of DVDs and it's inclusion is mandatory on all Blu-ray disks. As with Macrovision for SD DVDs, AACS has licensing and royalty fees. The client applies for an AACS license with a one-time fee of $3000. Then there's an AACS per title fee ranging from $1500 - $1785, a $.05 per disc fee, mastering fees, and other miscellaneous fees. These do not include the cost of authoring or replication.

That's some impressive rent being earned for doing absolutely nothing. Geez.

[lastknight]

From the IMSLP's entry for Rite of Spring (http://imslp.org/wik...vinsky,_Igor%29)

But the Don Sebesky work that BD based their show on is much more recent.

[MikeD]

No, the BOA list also takes synch rights into account. BOA films and sells video for every single one of their events; that service is part of their revenue equation.

They have a pretty complicated set of forms and lists on their website. There is the list I was thinking about regarding arranging tough to get music, and then there is another set of lists and forms for video rights.

[perc2100]

But the Don Sebesky work that BD based their show on is much more recent.

I believe the copyright rules are kind of funk when it comes doing an arrangement of an arrangement: it's my understanding that if you are doing an arrangement of a piece that someone else already arranged, you need to only get permission for the original piece, and not the arrangement.

Complicated, I know. Essentially, I think Blue Devils ONLY need to get permission for Rite of Spring, and the arrangements (the "Rewrite of Spring," or the jazz arrangement of "Rite of Spring"), unless featuring original work that is of such significance to warrant its own copyright claims, are fair game.

There was a recent controversy when the Fox TV show GLEE used an incredible folksy arrangement of "Baby Got Back" originally arranged, produced, and recorded by Jonathan Coulton. When Glee decided to use his arrangement, they ONLY needed to get permission from Sir Mix-a-lot, even though they blatantly ripped off Coulton's arrangement. Coulton didn't even KNOW Fox was using his piece: they didn't even give him a "we're going to be using your arrangement on our program on this date" type of notification! Unfortunately for Jonathan Coulton, there was no legal recourse because he only did (a highly entertaining and original) cover song, and since Sir Mix-a-lot got his royalty and gave permission Fox was in the clear.

If that's the case, then Blue Devils only need to get permission from Stravinsky's estate, though that might be different international rules. Or perhaps the other artists have original content BD used that I'm not familiar with.

Anyway, legal mumbo jumbo of the day...

[Pete Freedman]

As it would be a different product, it would require a separate license.

Licensing cost is the killer for a short run product. If the quantity is too small, sales revenue might not even cover the minimum licensing fee.

That's interesting. So let's say in January they decide to publish a Top 6 DVD. They would have to pay synch license fees again for all the content on that DVD?

I would think the word product means simply a video recording (i.e. a corps performance). TV is full of these "products" (shows, commercials, clips on news shows, etc.) and none of them are on physical media (presumably).

Still, if the producers of Bones sell both a DVD and a Blu-Ray of their TV show, perhaps that's two more licenses (as opposed to just one or none) for whatever music they may be using. If so, the law is giving too much power to the rights holders IMO.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Pete Freedman

[lindap]

Thanks for this thread, now in the know that buying is no : (

I'll enjoy our memories, a CD and a few photos of 2013 finals

[Guardguy89]

The Drum Corps International Customer Service team has asked me to direct international customers to the 2013 DCI Top 12 DVD International Option Preorder link in the DCI Store tab about 2013 audio and video products. There you will read the explanation regarding why this year's recordings available domestically cannot be sold internationally.

Am I the only one that can't find the International tab?

What a slap in the face this is to "Non US" people - thanks DCI!!!! I feel the love!

Mike

[jonnyboy]

I believe the copyright rules are kind of funk when it comes doing an arrangement of an arrangement: it's my understanding that if you are doing an arrangement of a piece that someone else already arranged, you need to only get permission for the original piece, and not the arrangement.Complicated, I know. Essentially, I think Blue Devils ONLY need to get permission for Rite of Spring, and the arrangements (the "Rewrite of Spring," or the jazz arrangement of "Rite of Spring"), unless featuring original work that is of such significance to warrant its own copyright claims, are fair game. There was a recent controversy when the Fox TV show GLEE used an incredible folksy arrangement of "Baby Got Back" originally arranged, produced, and recorded by Jonathan Coulton. When Glee decided to use his arrangement, they ONLY needed to get permission from Sir Mix-a-lot, even though they blatantly ripped off Coulton's arrangement. Coulton didn't even KNOW Fox was using his piece: they didn't even give him a "we're going to be using your arrangement on our program on this date" type of notification! Unfortunately for Jonathan Coulton, there was no legal recourse because he only did (a highly entertaining and original) cover song, and since Sir Mix-a-lot got his royalty and gave permission Fox was in the clear.If that's the case, then Blue Devils only need to get permission from Stravinsky's estate, though that might be different international rules. Or perhaps the other artists have original content BD used that I'm not familiar with.Anyway, legal mumbo jumbo of the day...

Very interesting, and something I had no clue about. I've done some reading on this today, and apparently Glee makes a practice out of copying a cover and just paying the original copywriter holder. They basically steal an arrangement, but it's all legal because that is how the system works.

So in the case of drumcorps, could a corps do the Blue Devils version of "Right of Spring" with out breaking any laws? As long as they get the original copywriters permission that is, they don't even have to ask the Devils or pay them. To stretch the point, I doesn't seem that anything can stop another corps or band from just stealing another groups arrangement, as long as they have the original holders permission.

You might argue that the drum and pit parts are original, but in the Glee example they used the banjo and some other effect that Coulton came up with. They even used the few lyrics he changed from the original version, basically his own creations for his cover version.

[perc2100]

Am I the only one that can't find the International tab?

maybe not literally the only one, per say, but it seems pretty easy to see. It's not necessarily a "tab," as it is one of several options when ordering the 2013 DCI audio/video stuff:

* first is the Blu-ray

* then the Top 12 DVD's

* then the International Top 12 DVD's

I wouldn't argue if DCI made those options maybe a little more 'obvious,' or made a more obvious point on the front page of the media that "International DVD buyers MUST order from this option only" or something, but it seems fairly clear to me

What a slap in the face this is to "Non US" people - thanks DCI!!!! I feel the love!

Not 100% sure where the disdain is coming from. Are you upset that DCI/Blue Devils were unable to secure necessary International rights due to different International copyright laws vs US copyright? It's very possible that International orders are very small, and not economically feasible for DCI to pay: meaning, the cost for DCI to secure those rights would potentially not be made up by revenue brought in via International orders.

I understand your frustrations, to an extent: I've been voicing them pretty vociferously annually due to portions of shows being cut due to lack of copyright clearance. I would LOVE to see a stricter rule regarding securing all copyright clearances before the season starts and/or not doing music, poetry, film quotes, etc. that are difficult/impossible to obtain. But in this case, it's hard to fault DCI/Blue Devils: they secured all necessary copyrights for what I would guess is the large majority of customers. It sucks for International customers, for sure, but in this case it seems like they did everything they could