Cavaliers Cell Phone Question

[Stu]

After 30 plus years of deaing in IT (including dealing with helpless Help Desk people) I've learned there are two ways to raise Hell. One gets you nowhere and the other is the art of questioning (no hissy or whine) the proper people in a way that they see the problem and not the person raising Hell. IMO at work if there is a real problem and it is being ignored it is my duty to make sure it isn't ignored.

I normally do not get caught up in Symantec issues, but you did use the phrase 'Raising Hell' which does not conjure up images in my mind of politely talking with others about a simple concerns. 'Raising Hell' conjures up images of fire, brimstone, and gnashing of teeth.

I don't determine what rules make sense. But... I do have the ability to talk to my supervisors and question why the rules are the way they are. And sometimes I do bring up good points and they are passed back up the chain. Sometimes management doesn't have the same info or viewpoint as the people in the trench.

And the Cavalier members as well as the Cavalier parents also have the ability to communicate with the staff of The Cavaliers. But again, talk, questions, suggestions, is not 'Raising Hell'. 'Raising Hell', your words not mine, is being disrespectfully combative not respectfully suggestive yet compliant.

[JimF-LowBari]

I normally do not get caught up in Symantec issues, but you did use the phrase 'Raising Hell' which does not conjure up images in my mind of politely talking with others about a simple concerns. 'Raising Hell' conjures up images of fire, brimstone, and gnashing of teeth.

And the Cavalier members as well as the Cavalier parents also have the ability to communicate with the staff of The Cavaliers. But again, talk, questions, suggestions, is not 'Raising Hell'. 'Raising Hell', your words not mine, is being disrespectfully combative not respectfully suggestive yet compliant.

OK.. having bad week so "Raising Hell" comes to mind quicker then "expressing displeasure forcefully at times" Seriously I see your point on my phrase-o-logy <$1 to Mayor Shin of The Music Man>. And the tone of voice I use when I AM in Raising Hell/expressing extreme displeasure mode is reserved for people who know me and trust what comes out. IOW if they see me PO'ed they know a real problem is going to be talked about, it's just hidden in the steam...

And again none of my past few posts were directed towards any corps. Think it started when I disagreed with posts that sounded like people who couldn't leave the cell at home had a problem... or somethin'...

Bad week = mostly the Naval Yard shooting and what I've seen of security checks over the years....

Edited September 18, 2013 by JimF-LowBari

[Ghost]

9 pages of this ?

Thanks for helping get this topic to page 10 sooner!

[charlie1223]

I would assume you are talking about me. I don't have any basis for what other corps social atmospheres are like as I never marched another corps. I can only speak for where I marched and can say it was an amazing social atmosphere. The fact is Cavaliers choose to do things a differently sometimes and everyone just has to deal with it. I'm sure every other corps has a great social aspect but, and this was started by Fielder in the early 2000s and carried on by the members starting last year, the Cavaliers decided to not even bother with the chance of having a cell phone on tour that could distract from tasks at hand or developing those important relationships with your brothers. The Cavaliers are a fraternity, brotherhood is very important and something that we don't take lightly. Everyone on here debating whether or not this policy is a good thing should really understand that for you, it's a non issue. As stated by a few people earlier, if you don't like the policy go march somewhere else.

To others who bring competitive success of the corps into this discussion, the corps didn't allow cellphones from 2000-2009 either and those were some pretty good years as well.

Also to the person asking if this was a "member" (meaning staff really) decision. It was a member decision. There were still members that marched this past year when no cell phones were allowed on tour and apparently they felt that policy was good enough to reinstate it themselves. The staff had nothing to do with it from a competitive standpoint as I know the staff now (at least percussively) do not preach anything specific to "winning", so I'm pretty sure it wasn't that.

No, I was not referring to you. I was referring to "PC". And atleast you have the sense of mind to not say that Cavaliers has the best social atmosphere because of the policy... because that would be ridiculous to say unless you've studied and experienced all social atmospheres. And its very good for you that you enjoy the social atmosphere at Cavies.

Unfortunetly, you have other people claim that Cavies' social atmosphere is objectively "better" than all the other corps because of this policy... and that is the ridiculous. However, my comment was not directed at you because you did not suggest or imply that and merely spoke about how great the social atmosphere was at Cavies without saying anything about other corps atmospheres and that's fine.

[charlie1223]

Go to most rehearsal sites (of any corps) and wait at the food truck for a meal to occur. WATCH the members during their time off the field. Most of them are buried in their phones, and do not interact with their fellow members... It is sad to see (having been involved before the cell explosion and after), but then again, this is how lots of people operate in public nowadays. What The Cavaliers are doing is unique (by not allowing personal cell phone use) and I absolutely love it. Armchair drum corps fans can proclaim to know what is best for the group, but the Cavaliers experience IS different from the other groups and I do not think it is rooted competitively, but more in the FRATERNAL aspect. They want their members to bond...and yes other groups DO bond, but not with the same consistency of interaction that is desired from those that are in charge of the Cavalier experience (staff, admin, and member leadership.)

How could you possibly know this. Its fine to hate or love the policy but I don't see how anyone can compare the "consistency of interaction" from corps to corps...

Edited September 18, 2013 by charlie1223

[Slingerland]

Honest question.... how would/how does a corps handle this if the stuff hits the fan?

If you look at recent history, you see that when there have been incidents (minor bus accidents, etc), the corps are generally very good about getting the info out to interested/concerned parties. In the case of Teal Sound, it was an amateur hour operation from the get-go, but in that case, DCI themselves stepped in to manage the situation, including the communications.

So sure, there are a few orgs that can't handle communications very well, but I don't think anyone has ever accused The Cavaliers of being one of them. As with most of the bigger corps, they manage the communications aspects of the operation cleanly and professionally.

[corpsband]

Go to most rehearsal sites (of any corps) and wait at the food truck for a meal to occur. WATCH the members during their time off the field. Most of them are buried in their phones, and do not interact with their fellow members... It is sad to see (having been involved before the cell explosion and after), but then again, this is how lots of people operate in public nowadays. What The Cavaliers are doing is unique (by not allowing personal cell phone use) and I absolutely love it. Armchair drum corps fans can proclaim to know what is best for the group, but the Cavaliers experience IS different from the other groups and I do not think it is rooted competitively, but more in the FRATERNAL aspect. They want their members to bond...and yes other groups DO bond, but not with the same consistency of interaction that is desired from those that are in charge of the Cavalier experience (staff, admin, and member leadership.)

How could you possibly know this. Its fine to hate or love the policy but I don't see how anyone can compare the "consistency of interaction" from corps to corps...

Indeed. Or this. Or this.

In fact I've been to many many rehearsals at multiple corps (including meal times) and I see members interacting with each other ALL THE TIME. In fact even when they're on their phones, they're STILL interacting with each other.

Here's another observation: go to a show and walk around the lot after a performance. You'll see many Cavaliers walking around with -- gasp ! -- their mobile phones! So apparently the "no cell phone rule" is not really in force at all. Members have their phones on tour (but they have to hide them and hand in fake phones). The big difference is: most corps don't pretend there's a no mobile phone rule during the members free time. Personally I think that requiring members to hide their mobile phones and pretend to follow rules is probably not a lesson most corps want to teach. But hey -- that's just my two cents.

This issue is identical to Bb vs G, amps, spats, tics and everything else:

"Drum corps was at it's best when *I* marched and that's the way things should stay!"

And get off my lawn !!

And that's my two and half cents:-)

Edited September 18, 2013 by corpsband

[JimF-LowBari]

If you look at recent history, you see that when there have been incidents (minor bus accidents, etc), the corps are generally very good about getting the info out to interested/concerned parties. In the case of Teal Sound, it was an amateur hour operation from the get-go, but in that case, DCI themselves stepped in to manage the situation, including the communications.

So sure, there are a few orgs that can't handle communications very well, but I don't think anyone has ever accused The Cavaliers of being one of them. As with most of the bigger corps, they manage the communications aspects of the operation cleanly and professionally.

Sorry if I was unclear. I wasn't asking how good corps are at handling this. I'm asking how (as steps that are taken to get it done) to get the word out. Yeah... I work nutz n' bolts in IT so I'm specifics oriented and anything else kinda shounds like a sales pitch...

LOL fer instance my house phone was out for a few hours this morning. Made a call and it was "magically" fixed". So I called back to ask what was done. Person on the other end couldn't understand why I wanted to know this. Told it didn't matter if they understood or not but... wha' hoppened.???...

Edited September 18, 2013 by JimF-LowBari

[Stu]

double post

Edited September 18, 2013 by Stu

[rockinbrass]

Indeed. Or this. Or this.

In fact I've been to many many rehearsals at multiple corps (including meal times) and I see members interacting with each other ALL THE TIME. In fact even when they're on their phones, they're STILL interacting with each other.

Here's another observation: go to a show and walk around the lot after a performance. You'll see many Cavaliers walking around with -- gasp ! -- their mobile phones! So apparently the "no cell phone rule" is not really in force at all. Members have their phones on tour (but they have to hide them and hand in fake phones). The big difference is: most corps don't pretend there's a no mobile phone rule during the members free time. Personally I think that requiring members to hide their mobile phones and pretend to follow rules is probably not a lesson most corps want to teach. But hey -- that's just my two cents.

This issue is identical to Bb vs G, amps, spats, tics and everything else:

"Drum corps was at it's best when *I* marched and that's the way things should stay!"

And get off my lawn !!

And that's my two and half cents:-)

What I said is not an absolute, 100% of the time symptom of the activity, but rather a broad observation from someone who is on the road with these members about daily habits of corps members. It is NOT a "drum corps was better when I marched."

I do not hesitate when I say this conversation about members being absorbed in their technology off the field is had frequently on the road amongst different staff members. Maybe the day you were there they were more talkative about the previous block, but you'd have to be blind to not take a step back and see that a great number of members of each group have a cell in their hand with their heads down as they wait in the food truck line. Maybe when they sit down, they talk slightly more (with a phone within inches of their hand for the incoming text, or the ability to surf facebook when the convo lulls,) but this tendancy towards less CONSISTENT interaction is something that has been increasing with each group I've been with since the middle of the decade. Minus me if you'd like, but that's my observation from the trenches (with multiple groups at both ends of the performing spectrum)

I'm not a Cavalier fanboy, but I definitely see the merit in what they have fostered with their members and what they continue to place an importance in. They don't want the distractions so their members can truly invest in the fraternity of the group. It works for them. I may not agree, but I see why.