Should DCI add a Front Ensemble judge?

[Jeff Ream]

Is it understood that pit players are listening more to brass/battery than the reverse?

yes. sometimes those on the field are too spread out to listen

[old skool drmmr]

Is it understood that pit players are listening more to brass/battery than the reverse?

The very fact that you even asked this question makes it hilarious that you are arguing whether or not the front ensemble deserves its own judge.

[N.E. Brigand]

I suppose we should never ask questions and just pretend that we already know everything.

[Bruckner8]

Sure, why not? Add a low brass judge too, or better yet, a tuba judge.

[Jeff Ream]

Sure, why not? Add a low brass judge too, or better yet, a tuba judge.

so he can praise the synth low end patch?

[BOBSMYTH]

Sure, why not? Add a low brass judge too, or better yet, a tuba judge.

I agree - but why stop there?

How about a cymbal judge? A bass drum judge? A 3rd Trumpet judge?

We want to make sure everyone is "properly evaluated".

I propose that we implement the judging system currently used in figure skating. They have a panel of 9 judges - each properly evaluating one individual skater. To use that ratio with a full 150 member corps, we would only need 1,350 judges per show.

And that doesn't count GE.

[charlie1223]

I bring this topic up because I heard a rumor (sorry for saying so but it is DCP!) that something to this effect was being discussed at the winter meetings! That there may be two percussion judges on the field instead of one for certain shows and if this rumor is true that would be amazing!

Edited February 10, 2014 by charlie1223

[perc2100]

Does the front ensemble suffer more than other parts of the corps from environmental demands?

Yes, and here is the bit$% of the situation:

if a front ensemble is perfectly in time with the drum major's hands, together as an ensemble, but not with the brass and percussion (who are disregarded the DM and rushing), the front ensemble is WRONG!

A great front ensemble instructor/arranger summed it up this way:

the front ensemble musicians need to listen back about 75% of the time, watch the drum major 20% of the time, and pray the other 5%

[N.E. Brigand]

I bring this topic up because I heard a rumor (sorry for saying so but it is DCP!) that something to this effect was being discussed at the winter meetings! That there may be two percussion judges on the field instead of one for certain shows and if this rumor is true that would be amazing!

I'm glad you resurrected this post, since I was wondering if it showed that DCP was particularly out of touch with the movers and shakers of DCI. It seems to me that most respondents to this thread were in favor of adding a front ensemble judge, but no such proposal was made before the Januals. On the other hand, more DCP participants seem to be opposed to than in favor of the addition of all brass instruments.

[drumcat]

As a FMM of a pit, a uni-level battery player and instructor, occasional corps pit clinician, and former WGI regional ex judge for percussion, this tends to be something that has bugged me for a long time.

First, the bravado of judging by running around and following an ensemble to me is ridiculous. There are situations where you can, in fact, hear just that little more, but I've never had a problem hearing what I need to hear from the sideline or first few rows. Besides, the paying customers are there, so if you can't judge equally from that location, what's the point?

The tapes... Oh, the tapes. Useless. In almost every case, it's "oh that guy was just a little off". It's like saying the pitcher threw a ball, not a strike. Yep. Probably missed by an inch, and it'll never happen the same way again. It might be worthwhile, but it's effectively an audio tick sheet. Only in wrap-up afterwards do you hear reasonable comments, and those are rushed to get to the next group.

Should the pit get judged? They'll tell you right now that pit *is* judged. It's in GE Music. That's a joke. The only way a pit is getting critiqued by a judge that half knows what's going on is when the battery is kneeling behind a prop for a ballad. At that, the judge runs over, walks by, peers, and struggles to give a comment about matching heights, or how that chime player could be striking with a more level hammer, or some crap like that...oh, gotta go... because DRUMS.

So, a few conclusions.

Can percussion execution be judged effectively by one person?

-Yes, as long as they are at least on the sidelines. Better would be 10 rows up.

Would percussion be better served by two judges?

-Probably, but it isn't "cost effective" when it can be fudged like it is now.

Is there any interest in the judge community?

-I don't know, but the guys that marathon it on the field tend to wear it like a badge.

What would you do?

-The pre-July 4th rule should be year-long. I don't care where the judge is as long as they are out of the form.

What would be the benefit?

-Put percussion judges in the 10th row, and watch those amps become much less loud in 5... 4... 3...

What would be lost?

-The absolute focus on 10 points for half a section would be more players playing for 10 points.

Final word:

Corps have been putting kids in pits that don't have the talent or health to be on the field for years. Often you'll get 2-3 kids that either played bass and turned an ankle, or have donor parents, or just flat out try really hard but need to be hidden for whatever reason. You can do that. Do you really want to start calling out the kids playing shaker? No. However, you do want to have a judge have the opportunity to see and hear *IN CONTEXT* how batteries and pits line up. Don't even joke about how Music GE does that. The most you hear is "there's a little tearing up front" but most tapes don't go any further than that. Bonus points for the word "staging" on the tape. However, if you want to decide that the pit should be judged, you can't be running around behind it for 8-9 minutes. It doesn't require more judges; it requires giving up the macho crap of running, dodging, and making tapes no one gets anything out of. Get the judge off the field for everyone's safety, and for the opportunity to review all the members in percussion at all times. No excuses.