What really makes Drum Corps so different

[perc2100]

Sound bite version in case anyone doesn't want to read the full response: We all have priorities in our life and limits on what we want to pay for things. I don't insult others for their choice and it's wrong to insult me for mine. And quite frankly there are some things in my background that might surprise some people and they drive my life choices today.

Doug if you reread, at NO time did I slam anyone else for wanting to do this. I am only saying that would probably be above of what I would want to pay. That is my choice and just as it would be wrong for me to say people should not do it, I think it is equally as wrong to people to insult me for my choice. Bottom line is everyone has a limit on what they want to pay for something, for me $1000 for band is more than I would be willing to pay. And guessing at the amount of time spend getting ready for and traveling to these events I might not want to do this because of the time taken from my studies. And just so you understand better, music in HS was a sideline to getting my education. I was known to bring homework into school musical (all 4 of them)rehearsals and work on it in between me having to play. It looked weird, I caught crap from certain people but my grades came first for various reasons. And if I would have been told to quit studying that would have been the last musical I would have been in.

I never said that bands like this have "win at all cost" mentalities. But I do know that some band parents DO have this idea as saw it when my sister was in band and competing. And she could name some fellow band members who were told by those band parents they should not march because they were "holding us back".

As for the sentence you highlighted the fuller quote was "You kids have enough #### going on without having to worry about scores. High School should be getting kids ready for the rest of their lives and not have their self esteem crushed because they ain't that good in some things. You know the people here that can't march or play worth a crap. So what, after they graduate here it means nothing. I want them to come out of band in better shape than they came in and not have people give them #### because they cost us points in some stupid ###ed band show."

You say you pity me... *shrug* you don't know me well enough why I said what I did so don't judge. And you also don't know what my and other peoples families income and expenses are so don't wave average costs around like it applies to everyone. And my limit on what I'd pay for MB is no different from what people would pay for doing DC.

Thanks for the clarification; a lot of what you expand upon here is not in your original post that I replied to. While it is understandable that people can not afford to donations or extra fees necessary to make great programs great (because, like I said, districts often underfund arts), can you really not understand the actual VALUE of band? I would not pay $200,000 for a lamborghini, but I can totally see the value of that car. It's always frustrating for me as a music educator when people in the community fail at seeing the value of music education. I know you might mean something along the lines of, "I couldn't afford to pay $1K and/or I think public school education should be funded better," or something, but I would hope that at least you can recognize that a school such as Carmel HS has a pretty incredible music program that is worth the fees (regardless of financial or political position).

Again, thanks for your clarification. Our job as music educator literally involves justifying the 'value' of performing arts, explaining why a high quality music program is worth an annual $500 donation, etc. I was taken aback to be on a forum devoted to music performing arts and read comments from someone who participated as a drum corps member saying things such as

Well can't wrap the concept of band being worth $1000 to me to play in, sounds about as bad as some of the sport nutzy schools we have.

Implying that you can't imagine why a band program would be worth paying for. Or when you say,

Glad we had the concept of band being to help the students in life (including ones with two left feet) instead of being a "power" or "winner".

implying that the ONLY reason these top bands push hard to is be competitive, while other schools who don't stress competition are better off. Both statements in your original post to me came off as self righteous and very naive. Thanks for clarifying

[JimF-LowBari]

Thanks for the well thought out reply Doug, I'm sure some others would be raking me over the coals. Then again that would be nice in the single digits we had this morning.

Just to clarify.

"Implying that you can't imagine why a band program would be worth paying for. " in response to my "Well can't wrap the concept of band being worth $1000 to me to play in" the main words were "to me". IOW - this was applying to me only and not others.

And:

"Glad we had the concept of band being to help the students in life (including ones with two left feet) instead of being a "power" or "winner"." - OK, a less than clear choice of words on my part and can see why my meaning didn't come across.

And (finally) - I was not saying band does not have value, just that the value differs between people. For people going into the music or arts field I can see why "paying to play" would have great value in education and experience. For people going into non-arts field, like... ohh... IT (or as it says on my degree Computer Science) MB was nice and learning to work with a group was the main benefit for my career.

Edited January 29, 2014 by JimF-LowBari

[Eleran]

Speaking of what people will pay for marching band ... this past Fall was my son's first year with the high school band (he's an 8th grader), and of course I can't recall what the financial arrangements were back in my own high school when I marched. But I've been heavily involved with youth sports for a decade, and people drop hundreds to thousands of dollars a year on youth sports for their kids, starting before they are 10.

So I truly was flabbergasted when I heard at the first parent's meeting that some people were balking that last year's $50 fee to march with the high school had risen to $100, even though all of it would be reimbursed if they obtained that much in ads for our tournament's ad-book. Flabbergasted, and more than a little sad, that people think all that time being educated in music, and all that time the kids will enjoy, is only begrudgingly worth $100.

[Bsader]

I apologize but this may take a while. I have read a lot of sports metaphors relative to this thread. A lot of talk about money, logistics and talk about competition. (Slight pause) To say that I grew up in a competitive neighborhood would be an understatement. My best friend outside of drum corp grew up across the street from me. He became the captain of our high school football team and then went on to captain his college football team. His 2 older brothers both played professional football (NY Giants of the NFL and Boston/New Orleans Breakers of the USFL). Next door to them and directly across the street from me was a young man who went on to play college hockey for the U. of Lowell, Ma. Directly next door to him was a young man who played hockey at West Point and right next door to him lived a young man who ended up playing hockey for the Boston Bruins as a defenseman. That's 3 professional athletes and 3 college athletes out of 4 houses sitting right next to each other. I played high school football and hockey but I, along with almost all of the kids in that neighborhood, enjoyed growing up playing back yard tackle football, street hockey and ice hockey together. We could play back yard ice hockey together because we use to build a little hockey rink in a freinds back yard. We were competitive against each other and we were crazy. We would play a football game that entailed everyone being at one end of the yard with the exception of one guy whom we would throw the ball to and his objective was to try to run past everyone with out getting tackled or I suppose killed. Our little hockey rink? When we got bored we would put our goalie net in the middle of the rink and skate around it playing roller derby on skates. The goal was to try to check anyone you could over the surrounding snow banks. It was great fun to catch a glimpse of someones skates as they disappeared over the little white mountains we had created. My belabored point is this. I understand competition. So, to a soon to be 55 year old, the question one could ask is what do I reminisce most about? I don't think much about the various sports teams I played on or even all that back yard fun I had. I reminisce most about the 5 years I spent marching with the Boston Crusader's and none of those memories has anything to do with competing. My memories are about performing in front of thousands of drum corp fans who loved listening and watching us perform and I certainly reminisce about all the fun we had off the field as well. In fact I can't imagine another drum corp having as much fun as we did. (I know using the word fun sounds lame but I'm trying to make a point) I remember putting on the uniform and the pride I felt wearing what I thought was the classiest uniform of any drum corp. This despite the little rips and tears and the faded colors we tried our best to hide. Not from shame but from pride. We had no money. We had no money! My first year was 1974, I was one of only 24 brass and we came in 37th place in the DCI prelims 25.150 points behind the Madison Scouts. This from a drum corp that came in 2nd place in the VFW nationals 4 years earlier. That night I had one of the most memorable nights of my life hanging out with my fellow Crusader's in Ithaca, NY. We had fun. In an early thread on another topic I wrote about the mistakes the Crusader's made back in my day. Mistakes that kept us from getting out of our own way. This thread isn't about what we did wrong back in my time it's about what we did right. And what did we do right? We survived!

I can understand if some people think I'm being naive when I make the statement that drum corps folded because they let themselves fold. But I ask you. No, I'm going to tell you that if all those drum corps that folded back in the day had the same attitude about competing and money as the Boston Crusader's had then they would all still be around today. All of them. I can't imagine another drum corp facing the challenges that the Crusader's did back in the day. We would have a lot more smaller drum corps, ones barely getting by financially with kids that are maybe not from the most affluent homes, kids that might not be all that talented, hanging out with their buddies talking about what a great show they just performed that night. And they wouldn't be talking about how they could have come in 6th place instead of 7th if they only had the money to afford that 45th piece of equipment for their pit that night. Over-emphasis on winning leads to chronic disappointment and very little fun and fewer Drum Corps.

I grew up playing sports and playing drum corp and I'm stating right now that in my opinion sports can not rise to the level of Drum Corp as to what it can offer a kid. What sport do you know of that has, lets say, 75 to 150 young women, young men, boys and girls performing together. Performing all forms of music while creating artistic designs in front of thousands of fans. Well, I suppose you couldn't name any. I suppose it wouldn't be a sport it would be either a band or a drum corp. I'm obviously getting a bit tired.

Anyways, I didn't go out for the high school football team until my senior year. I was really a hockey player who got talked into playing football by my best friend who lived across the street and was captain of the team and blah,blah, blah. I ended up as a 2nd string running back who returned kick offs and punts. (I loved it but I wouldn't recommend it. Lots of headaches.) I played in front of maybe 150 people. In the Boston Crusader's I started out as a 3rd Sop then a 2nd then a lead and then the soloist in the '79 prelims in which we had only 25 brass but still managed to come in 12th place in GE brass . I mentioned this, too many times, in other topics. I played in front of thousands of people. (I also mentioned in a previous thread that in my opinion the best ovation we had that year was when we put on a half time show for the Toronto Argonauts of the Canadian football league. Their were 54,000 people at the game and they gave us some great ovations throughout the show.) In '79 we had about 60 people in our entire corp and we came in 19th place mainly because we threw out 2 of our 5 snare drummers about 2 weeks before the DCI championship. Why? because they were @#%%$#@. So are drum line came in 35th place and our drum corp came in 19th and we hardly had any money and so unfortunately....we had a great time that night hanging out with each other. We always had a great time in '79.

Maybe this ramble needs a summation but I'm hoping not. I know I'm not giving specifics about how to save drum corp but then again maybe I am. I understand that money is an inevitable reality for drum corp but it's far from the point isn't it? I suppose how far from the point is the question.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Bsader

[DrumCorpsFan27]

One question to ask is how much of the decline in numbers is due to corps folding, versus a decrease in new corps rising to take their place. Corps folded all the time, pre-DCI as well, only new corps would spring up to take their place, esp at the lower level where most of the corps were located, skill-wise.

It's too expensive for new corps to start up and be viable.

[DrumCorpsFan27]

People like to experience the best. You say people prefer drum corps...they really only prefer...and always have...the best drum corps. The smaller local circuits like the GSC ran shows to basically nobody in the 'audience' in many cases. People want to see Crown and the Cadets and Blue Devils and Scouts and Crossmen, etc...because they are the very best in marching/music. Even today, these legacy fans who bemoan the lack of support for Open Class are not flocking in large numbers to the Open class shows.

The end of the local circuits began as DCI started requiring the major corps to travel on both tours (now one long tour). Before that, the larger corps could do shows in the local circuits, drawing fans and money for the local corps. DCI's final coup for this was the take over and elimination of Drum Corps Midwest which they started with convincing Jeff Fiedler and the Cavaliers (not The Cavaliers at the time) pull out.

[Jeff Ream]

the lack of woodwinds

[bluesman]

Well, there are certainly still amazing, ear-pinning, balls-to-wall power even if a small percentage of the performers are amplified. I mean, Metallica is still loud as hll, even if they are cranking up their amps.

Also, your assertion describes a fairly small portion of a fifteen minute drum corps show: really loud impact moments are cool, but there are MANY other parts of the show.

But I guess if you're trying to make a very thinly veiled (and super vague) point about being anti-electronics...

Wasn't really trying to make an anti-electronic statement. That was just one of the ways I used to give a drum-corps novice an idea of what I was so passionate about. I have no problem with properly used electronics or amplification. I marched 81-83 and I can't tell you how much my aching back appreciated planting that vibraphone in the pit ....IMO change is inevitable and welcomed in even the smallest ways.

Edited March 13, 2014 by bluesman

[camel lips]

Summer marching band has never been so exciting.

[Jeff Ream]

the amount of #####ing in the stands