jthomas666 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) nm Edited January 16, 2014 by jthomas666 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimwolf359 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 89 is the first time I remember hearing about it If I remember correctly, they used BDs Semi-Finals Performance for the CDs. The DVD is from the Finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Thanks for all the replies from people in the know. The consensus so far seems to be "the Finals are over with, now let's produce a product." I don't have a problem with that, but I think that those who make the blanket comparison to editing a concert for commercial release are ignoring the risk that altering the results of a competition may raise questions about its integrity. What would happen if the Olympics, to which DCI pays tribute with the slogan "The Summer Music Games," sold edited versions of the event to show athletes not botching the landings, not tripping on hurdles and not sliding off the edge of the ski slope, just so it would look better? On the other hand, as a consumer and a fan of the activity, I do appreciate not having to repeatedly listen to the clams that have been fixed. If fixing mistakes more and more supports the impression that DCI is growing as a medium of musical excellence, then DCI has a practical and financial interest in doing so, and that's fine with me. To those engaging in this thread please answer this: To you, is DCI a Competition which happens to also be a series of artistic performances, or is DCI mainly Artistic Performances which happen to also be a competition? The way you answer will be important because if you value the Competition above the art you would likely want to hear the clams and all other warts from the various Finals night performances; but if you value the Artistic side more than the competition you would likely want the best amalgamation of the various shows as possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 True it was a 1-time performance. But back then did the technology let them edit in/out one tune? I am curious - I really don't know. So far as costing them, I am sure it did not help their chances. they weren't going to catch BD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hey, Kobold knew what he was doing with the dynamics thing. He sorta got thrown under the bus when he had to make room for the pit. It took DCI 30 years to learn how to balance the pit with the rest of the corps on the recordings. and they're still learning how to balance the pit with the corps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 They've been doing this for decades. Recall the 1986 Garfield Cadets. Rumor has it, the soloist was stung by a bee that day, and the Finals solo was very, very off. (She was the only one playing.) Semifinals was beautiful, so they spliced it in. (Now that I think about it, they may have used the Cadets' semifinals perf in 1990. The hornline was on fire as compared to Finals.) Watch the 1989 Blue Devils' video and tell me that sop soloist wasn't grateful that they used the semifinal solo for the recording. That was the most uncomfortable moment I've ever witnessed. He messed up badly and then kept going. Worse and worse. On and on. Eesh. And cixelcyd, did you arbitrarily choose Pioneer, or was there a particular recording involved? I chose Pioneer because in recent years, they only have one championship week performance, so I know they are not getting the best bits and pieces of 2 or 3 shows put together. Like I said before, if circumstances are as extreme as 1989 Blue Devils, I have no issue with using semifinals or quarterfinals as long as they use one whole uncut performance, and tell us which one it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I must admit to being impressed by the appearance of this eloquent turn of the phrase on this forum: "...that would just be insane schadenfreude..." And that really is the point. Perhaps a "real world" anecdote would add perspective. A while back, I heard Rita Moreno sing with a trio at a local caberet. She appeared for 3 nights, two sets per evening, all of them recorded. I attended "finals". At the performance in question , she began by saying, "I have a bit of a throat on this evening and may miss a note or two. It won't bother me. Don't let it bother you." She did have one little unintentional crack. When the recording was released, it wasn't there, and that is as it should be. It was an anomaly, not truly representative of Rita Moreno as an artist. Those of us who witnessed the actual event will just have to store her miss in the audio of memory. Was Ms. Moreno in competition that night? No. And thus, the account you give is not comparable to a DCI contest. Now, here is something that corresponds better to what you describe. A number of corps schedule a recording session into their championship week activities. The corps is recorded standing still, with preferable staging and acoustic conditions. Any number of mics can be used, and mixed optimally after the fact. Multiple takes enable the best phrases to be combined to create an end result showing the corps in their best possible light. You know this well - as I understand it, you have made quite a few of these recordings yourself. That is where the editing should be done. Ironically, by condoning such editing for DCI field recordings, we defeat the purpose of these special standstill recordings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam98 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Archivist here--my profession is to preserve it all: the good, the bad and the ugly, even if the "ugly" is part of the original manuscript, photograph, performance, et al. Drum corps is an ephemeral art, like ballet, the symphony, plays, etc., and performances will vary (sometimes wildly) from show to show. I'm always interested in performance footage outside of finals because of those differences and nuances. Each performance has its own integrity and each is worth preserving, in my opinion. I have no problem with DCI or any corps wanting to put their best product out there to make a buck, but I agree with the posters that said that if there is editing done to a performance, it needs to be stated as such in liner notes, labeling, etc. Just my 2 cents. Edited January 16, 2014 by Sam98 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frachel Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 To those engaging in this thread please answer this: To you, is DCI a Competition which happens to also be a series of artistic performances, or is DCI mainly Artistic Performances which happen to also be a competition? The way you answer will be important because if you value the Competition above the art you would likely want to hear the clams and all other warts from the various Finals night performances; but if you value the Artistic side more than the competition you would likely want the best amalgamation of the various shows as possible. I want to see/hear it "as it was". I'll buy the corps own studio recordings if I want to here a more pristine version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Aces Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I don't know if anyone else finds it ironic, but DCI can and will edit individual performances to fix individual fracks so the recordings can be as pristine as possible. However, they also leave gaping chunks, both audio and video, out of recordings due to rights issues. Don't get me wrong, I understand all the issues involved. I just think that they desperately need a solution to the rights mess that is currently destroying their current recordings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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