perc2100 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 JimF has the more recent history, but as per my other posts, "actual bugles", as you put it, have included keyed instruments for at least 213 years now. So until this weekend, every brass instrument approved for use in DCI has in fact been a bugle. That's the dumbest thing I've heard in regards to this topic. Bugles have had valves before, but that doesn't make a Bb tuba a bugle. Don't use crazy over exaggeration to try and prove your point. One could argue, perhaps, that the G bugles were legit bugles with valves, but saying instruments used in 2013 DCI were "bugles" isn't just dubious: it's false, and naive at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I've said it before and I'll say it again now; the REAL difference between drum corps and marching band is NOT the instrumentation. In a "nuts and bolts" sense, it is the restricted size of the group. In the performance sense, they will never, EVER be the same. No marching band will ever dedicate their lives to their show and performance the way a junior corps does. Therein lies the difference. Everything else is gravy. The only time a marching band ever practices 8-12 hours a day is maybe at band camp. The only time a corps does that is every day. BIG DIFFERENCE. TOTALLY agree! I marched in the late 90's, with G brass, 128 max, all acoustic designs. It was obvious that what I did, show design wise, was SIGNIFICANTLY different than what people did in the 80s and 70s. The one constant that sets drum corps apart from other youth musical activities is exactly what you say above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) I mentioned that, might not have been in this thread. Everyone is so up in arms about, "how it used to be!" why don't we actually go back to the roots and bring the fifes back? Then woodwinds would be included, and some people's heads might actually explode. What if the woodwoods were brought back, and then the Drum Corps later decided when you were older to move to all woodwinds and to eliminate the brass bugles, brass trumpets, brass trombones, brass sousaphones, brass tubas,... all brass instumentation dropped ( similar to the brass bugles previously being dropped ) you'd be ok with this right ? As afterall, its" still Drum Corps", right ? Surely, your head would not explode if Drum Corps went to all woodwinds with their percussion sections some day when you got older.... or would it ? And if it did.. why ? It would " still be Drum Corps ", no ? And you'd be supportive of the decision, and you'd still go the DCI Drum Corps shows if there were no brass instumentation anymore, just percussion, woodwinds, dancers, twirly poles, strobe lights, singers, ( perhaps a rock guitar or two ) etc,... right ? Edited February 11, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Sorry BRASSO, forgot my sarcasm font when dealing with DCP's resident politician. If it went all-woodwind, I probably would step away. I don't play a woodwind instrument, so it holds no appeal for me. Do play trombone, it has appeal. Which is why the new change is interesting to me. I'm one of those people that's an optimist, that thinks maybe if this passed with overwhelming support, maybe it's something the directors have thought through and know how to implement it properly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 ...as per my other posts, "actual bugles", as you put it, have included keyed instruments for at least 213 years now. So until this weekend, every brass instrument approved for use in DCI has in fact been a bugle. That's the dumbest thing I've heard in regards to this topic. Bugles have had valves before, but that doesn't make a Bb tuba a bugle. Don't use crazy over exaggeration to try and prove your point. One could argue, perhaps, that the G bugles were legit bugles with valves, but saying instruments used in 2013 DCI were "bugles" isn't just dubious: it's false, and naive at best. Really, even dumber than the specific argument to which I was responding (which tesmusic made in three different threads), that claimed that the wind instruments which drum corps used for much of the 20th Century weren't bugles because bugles can't have valves? But, sure, if you've decided that a contrabass bugle isn't a bugle, then you're right that drum corps haven't restricted their wind instruments to bugles since the 1950s. I don't know why a contrabass clarinet is still a clarinet but a contrabass bugle isn't a bugle, but we each must decide where to draw our own lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Really, even dumber than the specific argument to which I was responding (which tesmusic made in three different threads), that claimed that the wind instruments which drum corps used for much of the 20th Century weren't bugles because bugles can't have valves? But, sure, if you've decided that a contrabass bugle isn't a bugle, then you're right that drum corps haven't restricted their wind instruments to bugles since the 1950s. I don't know why a contrabass clarinet is still a clarinet but a contrabass bugle isn't a bugle, but we each must decide where to draw our own lines. When someone has been given an arguement, even if it really isn't a good one, but it seems like a good reply by many that shuts others up, they usually stick to it. Doesn't matter if it is makes sense or not. It doesn't matter to these people that there's a difference between enhancement ( sops -> contras) (no valves -> 3 valves) and larger changes such as legalizing non-bell front horns... It's just easier and they don't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 To some extent, I do agree that one of the most significant things about drum corps is the talent and close behind would be the dedication. However, the instrumentation is still an important factor. There is a difference between a symphony orchestra and a jazz ensemble but the talent and dedication could be the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearwonk Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) The day valves were added, BUGLES WENT AWAY. That was decades ago, before most of us marched. If you marched with valves, you didn't play a bugle. Keys were added to bugles but they were still bugles. Valves were added to cornets and French horns and it didn't change their character. The Drum and Bugle Corps movement ended when DCI allowed the use of band instruments, which COMPLETELY changed the character of the sound. Gone is the crack of a contrabass bugle planting a downbeat like a bass trombone, and tubas can't replace it, even if you use 20 of them, all you get is a thud. Using actual bass trombones won't replace it, it just won't carry the punch. Bugles were used because they were LOUD. THAT'S THE POINT. Adding the pit made it difficult to hear the DRUMS and the BUGLES over the thirteen suspended cymbals, and electronics just added a layer of crap to what should sonically be a celebration of the awesome power of air and muscle. What does "You may take the field" mean when the sound crew making half the sound is in the stands? Oh well, it was nice while it lasted. Enjoy the new High School Band International (HSBI). Edited February 12, 2014 by gearwonk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadets98 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 It's still drum corps. Same way it's been ever since we stopped using actual bugles. Everyone is being so #### melodramatic. How about y'all actually wait and see how designers integrate these things into shows? Hmm? Be a little patient instead of just flying off of the handle and burning everything corps related you've ever owned. I'm sure people flipped out when they added that second valve onto horns, yet now people say the 80s gave us most of the top beloved shows. Then the third valve gave us even more great shows, and Phantom's first ever win. Now the any-key era has given us Spartacus, Ballet for Martha, Cadet's Disney Show, The Zone, E=MC2, Machine, and many other beautiful shows. As a community, if we all really want this activity that gave us so much to survive, maybe it's time to look for positives, instead of constantly looking for the negatives, or the nearest cliff we can try and throw our support off of. Nothing wrong with questioning authority. The powers that be need to know now that further changes will kill drum corps. Only way to do that is raise holy hell now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ducttapedgerbil Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 So what do I call a drum corps that uses(allows) trombones and sousaphones????? I don't......they are dead to me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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