The Entertainment Proposal... The one that didn't pass

[HornTeacher]

Agree...the average baseball fan doesn't know better than the staffs and admins. But say baseball awarded extra runs for "style" points, or what was considered GE, then the fan's opinion would have to be considered more relevant. I do agree that I don't need for a corps to win to be entertaining.

And to be undeniably persnickety, a corps doesn't necessarily have to be entertaining to be the most proficient corps. However, I also agree with your points about style points, Tru. Please take my first sentence as SUPPORT of your idea.

[HornTeacher]

Just to be a jerk...

We've all read how drum corps exist "for the kids" (read: students, performers, young men and women who sweat all summer for a product which is pleasing for them and for the general audience).

Is it just me, or is this discussion (and others like it) suddenly gravitating toward a point of drum corps existing for the audience?

Edited February 18, 2014 by HornTeacher

[Jeff Ream]

Despite my earlier post kind of knocking you for taking this stance, I have come to really agree with your clear vision on this. Especially over the last few days. For the first time ever in my life, I find myself not trying to plan on what shows I will be going to this year. I am not really at the radical protest point yet I guess, but I am definitely disenchanted in some way. We'll see what happens come June. I refuse to believe that "pruning" fans like you and me will ever be good for drum corps.

oh I don't think it's good at all. but what do we know? After all we have directors crying the financil blues as reasons for their attempts to take over the organization, yet we see DCI having one of their best years ever.

[Jeff Ream]

Just to be a jerk...

We've all read how drum corps exist "for the kids" (read: students, performers, young men and women who sweat all summer for a product which is pleasing for them and for the general audience).

Is it just me, or is this discussion (and others like it) suddenly gravitating toward a point of drum corps existing for the audience?

you can't have one without the other.

and thus the dilemma.

and honestly, usually most of the issues in the activity are created by the adults in charge.

[HornTeacher]

you can't have one without the other.

and thus the dilemma.

and honestly, usually most of the issues in the activity are created by the adults in charge.

Point well taken, Sir.

[garfield]

Let's put this in a bit of perspective...

With 400,000 in attendance at DCI events last year, 5,000 people represent about 0.01%.

If 10% of 400,000 is 40,000, then 4,000 is 1% of 400,000, not .01% as you depict.

This does not take in to consideration the significant number of additional viewers that connected via cinema events, Fan Network of viewers of YouTube videos.

5,000 is absolutely insignificant in this context and not even worth acknowledging.

1.25% of your fan base is not insignificant and, more importantly, we don't know how many of those voters fall above the mean in terms of annual spending. The poll was taken down (my tin foil hat is vibrating) so there's no way to tell how many would have eventually signed. Would 2% - how about 4% - be worth considering? What if they were demonstrably your highest annual spenders, like Friends members?

Again, that is 5,000 people who simply lifted a finger to press a button on their computer vs. 400,000 who pulled out their credit card, paid real money to buy tickets and merchandise, got in their cars (some for hours) and drove to the event... paid gas, meals, sometimes lodging... to go see a drum corps show. Others that paid to go to theatre events or subscribed to the Fan Netowork.

5,000 in context of 0.01% is textbook definition squeaky wheel/vocal micro-minority. In actual context it is probable a more realistic 0.006% (5,000/800,000).

Again, 5000 / 800,000 is .625%, not .00625%. And where did you come up with 800,000? Don't you think that, if that number was valid, DCI would couldn't get to Mike Boo fast enough to trumpet it across the land? Until you provide some demonstrable evidence, I call B.S. on this speculation.

Charge people even $1 to voice an opinion and I bet that number would be only around 100 that would actually care enough to pull out their card.

To demonstrate how small of a minority and how little those complainers always spouting about 'voting with their wallet' actually matter... I would be brilliant to see DCI call their bluff.

Create a campaign where people can vote to repeal - 1 user gets 1 vote. To vote, it costs a minimum of $1, but users can contribute up to $10. If they can actually raise $100,000... then the rule is repealed.

Would be genius, actually, as it would settle the point once and for all.

What? Really? This is serious business practice for DCI? Charge someone to give them your opinion? Oh, sure, and let me guess who gets the proceeds... Care to give the proceeds to the corps that the most people say they came to see? How about using it to reduce the DCI contract for TEP shows?

This is lunacy, Dan. Such a poll would do nothing of the sort that you describe. It would only be as useful as the level of acceptance of its results, and we have Project Persona as evidence that the directors have no hesitation at all in expelling any evidence that goes against the grain of their beliefs.

DCI should provide every TEP on the tour with a questionnaire and a box of t-shirts to give away to get people to complete the survey. The corps should kick in some shirts, too. DCI should put up a survey on DCI.com and offer $1 off each ticket sold by DCI, and offer it for free.

Those who view this decision as negative don't trust DCI to make the right decisions; they surely aren't going to throw away even $1 to people whom they think are incompetent.

Edited February 19, 2014 by garfield

[garfield]

Firing some of your customers can be a very good thing for many businesses, if it is a distraction or simply a negative experience.

Yes, a lot of $150k or more in 'pruning' to be able to be more focused is absolutely worth it. That is about 0.015% of DCI's revenue. It costs more than this in terms of distraction.

OK, I agree with your first premise, and I agree from personal experience that some customers just aren't worth it. But tell me who, among the masses, is such a PITA that they justify being "fired" from a non-profit? Since when has DCI invited or even encouraged the kind of involvement by the masses that they could even identify the PITA's? Every business person has a limit of what they will take from a paying client, but who could possibly be on the "Top-10 PITA" list (besides Ream and Stu, of course) at DCI?

DCI doesn't survive on the revenues of their clients as I, and most everyone in the business world, do. (We all lament that DCI isn't self-supporting; it only raises about half of it's revenue from ticket sales.) It survives on the good-will of its supporters, advertisers, contributors. When only half of your revenue comes from real, paying customers, can you afford to pi$$ any of them off?

Jeebus, you're terrible with a calculator, Dan! $150,000 is 1.5% of DCI's $10,000,000 budget, not .015%.

Edited February 18, 2014 by garfield

[truman]

Let's put this in a bit of perspective...

With 400,000 in attendance at DCI events last year, 5,000 people represent about 0.01%.

If 10% of 400,000 is 40,000, then 4,000 is 1% of 400,000, not .01% as you depict.

This does not take in to consideration the significant number of additional viewers that connected via cinema events, Fan Network of viewers of YouTube videos.

5,000 is absolutely insignificant in this context and not even worth acknowledging.

1.25% of your fan base is not insignificant and, more importantly, we don't know how many of those voters fall above the mean in terms of annual spending. The poll was taken down (my tin foil hat is vibrating) so there's no way to tell how many would have eventually signed. Would 2% - how about 4% - be worth considering? What if they were demonstrably your highest annual spenders, like Friends members?

Again, that is 5,000 people who simply lifted a finger to press a button on their computer vs. 400,000 who pulled out their credit card, paid real money to buy tickets and merchandise, got in their cars (some for hours) and drove to the event... paid gas, meals, sometimes lodging... to go see a drum corps show. Others that paid to go to theatre events or subscribed to the Fan Netowork.

5,000 in context of 0.01% is textbook definition squeaky wheel/vocal micro-minority. In actual context it is probable a more realistic 0.006% (5,000/800,000).

Again, 5000 / 800,000 is .625%, not .00625%. And where did you come up with 800,000? Don't you think that, if that number was valid, DCI would couldn't get to Mike Boo fast enough to trumpet it across the land? Until you provide some demonstrable evidence, I call B.S. on this speculation.

Charge people even $1 to voice an opinion and I bet that number would be only around 100 that would actually care enough to pull out their card.

To demonstrate how small of a minority and how little those complainers always spouting about 'voting with their wallet' actually matter... I would be brilliant to see DCI call their bluff.

Create a campaign where people can vote to repeal - 1 user gets 1 vote. To vote, it costs a minimum of $1, but users can contribute up to $10. If they can actually raise $100,000... then the rule is repealed.

Would be genius, actually, as it would settle the point once and for all.

What? Really? This is serious business practice for DCI? Charge someone to give them your opinion? Oh, sure, and let me guess who gets the proceeds... Care to give the proceeds to the corps that the most people say they came to see? How about using it to reduce the DCI contract for TEP shows?

This is lunacy, Dan. Such a poll would do nothing of the sort that you describe. It would only be as useful as the level of acceptance of its results, and we have Project Persona as evidence that the directors have no hesitation at all in expelling any evidence that goes against the grain of their beliefs.

DCI should provide every TEP on the tour with a questionnaire and a box of t-shirts to give away to get people to complete the survey. The corps should kick in some shirts, too. DCI should put up a survey on DCI.com and offer $1 off each ticket sold by DCI, and offer it for free.

Those who view this decision as negative don't trust DCI to make the right decisions; they surely aren't going to throw away even $1 to people with whom they think are incompetent.

You are becoming a distraction and need to be pruned!

[garfield]

Just to be a jerk...

We've all read how drum corps exist "for the kids" (read: students, performers, young men and women who sweat all summer for a product which is pleasing for them and for the general audience).

Is it just me, or is this discussion (and others like it) suddenly gravitating toward a point of drum corps existing for the audience?

The promise of the drum corps experience includes the opportunity to travel the country and perform in front of thousands of adoring fans in competition with the other corps. They could judge themselves without a tour or fans but, without the opportunity to perform in front of an audience, the corps would have to change their mission statements.

Without the audience, the attraction to DCI fades dramatically. The kids say it all the time, just watch the age-out videos.

Further, the contention is that the kids would get the same "experience" in drum corps if they were marching with kazoo's, so we know "mastering their art" is not really among their prime motivators for doing summer band, eh?

So, yea, I'd say the audience is important. Danged important, IMO.

[N.E. Brigand]

And where did you come up with 800,000? Don't you think that, if that number was valid, DCI would couldn't get to Mike Boo fast enough to trumpet it across the land?

I think Mr. Boo, being a percussionist, would be likelier to chime or ring the news across the land. If he had a hammer...