GUARDLING Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Sorry, that was suppsoed to be sarcasm. The Internet really needs a sarcasm font. ;-) I guess the best thing to do is to not care about the scores. Be entertained when you're entertained. lol...opps sorry..i tend to be to serious...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 While it is true that GE judges are technically in the audience, in so much as they are in the stadium observing the event live like all the others in attendance, they are actually quite detached from the rest of the audience. Why? Not only because they are judges; but more so because the staff of each corps directly and intimately communicates show design issues and the nuances of inner-workings within those issues to the judges from the first read in June to the last show in August. This exclusive and intimate ‘staff to judge’ communication is non-existent for anyone else in the audience at any event. Thus the ‘audience engagement', or even if it were the ‘audience entertainment', which is supposed to be evaluated by GE judges is way, way skewed due to this exclusive intimate communication as compared to the actual 'audience engagement' or 'audience entertainment' received by all of the rest of the people observing from the stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I didn't say DCI should be measuring applause. There must be other ways to determine who the audience is paying to see--if we want the corps who are earning the most money to actually receive the most money. (Maybe we don't.) Since you have helpfully provided a formula, we can consider one obvious example. Madison Scouts placed ninth last year. Accordingly, they received a smaller payout than Boston Crusaders, who finished eighth. Did more people in fact pay to see Boston than paid to see Madison? (Edit to fix obvious mistake of switching corps eighth and ninth places.) there isn't. when you buy a ticket, you're paying to see all. doesn't matter if you say don't like Boston or not, if you buy the ticket, the implied reaction is you like them all. the only true way to prove popularity is to see who sells more souvies. when amps first went in, i asked if it was possible to have my ticket prices given only to the corps of my choosing. I was told no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 there isn't. when you buy a ticket, you're paying to see all. doesn't matter if you say don't like Boston or not, if you buy the ticket, the implied reaction is you like them all. the only true way to prove popularity is to see who sells more souvies. when amps first went in, i asked if it was possible to have my ticket prices given only to the corps of my choosing. I was told no. did you really ask that?.......lol....thats hysterical DUDE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Careful with the athletic analogies: it is a canard among some DCP participants that such comparisons are always inappropriate! As for popularity vs. performance level, others may have meant to link them, but speaking for myself, I wasn't suggesting that popularity should affect the scores, but only the purse. The biggest money-making movie of 2013 was Iron Man 3. Although the "Rotten Tomatoes" site indicates it was generally well received by critics, I doubt it made a single critic's "top ten" list for 2013 (certainly it didn't make many) and I know that it was nominated for just one technical Academy Award. On the other hand, Nebraska made lots of critics' lists and has six Academy Award nominations, including Best Picture, but ts box office earnings put it at #123 for the year. Were the Madison Scouts the drum corps Iron Man 3 of 2013: loved by the fans but largely passed over by the judges? Were the Blue Devils the Nebraska of 2013, loved by the judges but mostly ignored by the fans? And should the Scouts be rewarded and the Devils penalized accordingly in financial terms? DCI controls one part of the "box office" of drum corps: is it being distributed properly? The corps are the individual films, and I consider DCI the theater chain. Their profitability is dependent upon butts in seats (well, and concessions; this isn't a perfect analogy... :) ). Academy Awards are nice, but the theater is never going to show The Artist on 3 screens and The Hobbit on 1. I've got no problem with DCI wanting to have more "popular" shows at the expense of artistic ones. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 While perhaps true, it is also a slippery slope when too many top placing Corps shows need to have a preseason sit down talk between their show designers and the judges for the upcoming season so the the judges will no longer be confused as to what their convoluted Theme- Show is going to be all about. We have gone off the track a bit here of late when shows leave too many fans and judges alike having the look of chronic constipation because, while well performed and executed, few know what in Hades the show is all about. The Perfoming Arts is designed at its most fundamental level to communicate a story thru music and visual and typically without words. Its a " slippery slope " when the DCI Judges requested a couple of years back a sit down preseason meeting to TALK about what the Show was going to be about... something the thousands of coast to coast DCI ticket purchasers to these shows are not afforded. The DCI entertainment proposal chief aim is to tweek the judging system to reward shows with ( their quote ) "good audience communication skills with their show", and conversely, to disreward a bit those shows, while well performed and executed, by contrast, were not as well communicated to the audience. I agree with the need for change in this area. And please do not confuse " popular " with " communication skill levels " They are not the same. This DCI proposal is not asking to reward the " popular " Corps, Corps show. You misunderstand the proposal if you have thought this. Or put another way...if you have to explain the punchline, then the joke isn't funny. Thank you for the analysis, Brasso. You said it a lot better than I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 While perhaps true, it is also a slippery slope when too many top placing Corps shows need to have a preseason sit down talk between their show designers and the judges for the upcoming season so the the judges will no longer be confused as to what their convoluted Theme- Show is going to be all about. We have gone off the track a bit here of late when shows leave too many fans and judges alike having the look of chronic constipation because, while well performed and executed, few know what in Hades the show is all about. The Perfoming Arts is designed at its most fundamental level to communicate a story thru music and visual and typically without words. Its a " slippery slope " when the DCI Judges requested a couple of years back a sit down preseason meeting to TALK about what the Show was going to be about... something the thousands of coast to coast DCI ticket purchasers to these shows are not afforded. The DCI entertainment proposal chief aim is to tweek the judging system to reward shows with ( their quote ) "good audience communication skills with their show", and conversely, to disreward a bit those shows, while well performed and executed, by contrast, were not as well communicated to the audience. I agree with the need for change in this area. And please do not confuse " popular " with " communication skill levels " They are not the same. This DCI proposal is not asking to reward the " popular " Corps, Corps show. You misunderstand the proposal if you have thought this. I always read your posts carefully so I get the nuances of your statement. But this one jumped out. Really, the corps TELL the judges how they want to be judged, and the judge's committee writes the interpretation (judging) rules to accommodate the corps. This "pre-critique" took the place of Phantom's libretto. Training the judges to recognize and appreciate your show is an integral part of being "avant-garde" when you have the luxury of defining your "competition". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) I like the idea of entertainment being part of the score, but I can't come up with any objective way to judge it. Have a judge not watch the show and only watch the crowds? Hey, they look like they're having fun. 17.85. The only real way to judge entertainment value is with fans buying or not buying tickets. If they find DCI entertaining, they will continue to purchase tickets. What makes you think that the current judging system is "objective"? You don't have to worry about objectivity when you write the rules under which you are judged. Find a way for the fan vote to benefit the current "top-placing" corps and I guarantee the proposal will be passed. Edited February 17, 2014 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Sorry, that was suppsoed to be sarcasm. The Internet really needs a sarcasm font. ;-) I guess the best thing to do is to not care about the scores. Be entertained when you're entertained. You can use this one: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 there isn't. when you buy a ticket, you're paying to see all. doesn't matter if you say don't like Boston or not, if you buy the ticket, the implied reaction is you like them all. the only true way to prove popularity is to see who sells more souvies. when amps first went in, i asked if it was possible to have my ticket prices given only to the corps of my choosing. I was told no. Measuring souvies isn't the answer because people spend different amounts regardless of their favorites. The only answer is to poll the fans as they are at the event. But, it's not reasonable to expect DCI, as the "public face" of the corps to engage a poll that might contradict the standard beliefs of voting constituents. It's easier to take on face value and proclamation the answer to who attracts the most fans to buy a ticket or attend a show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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