funkjazzaxe Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) Odd how you stated in the first sentence of your posting that what makes up the various elements that define a drum corps, "... is in the eye of beholder...", but then proceeded to post a diatribe which supports the exact opposite position. As far as defining as "sport" vs "art"... can make good case for either. I see it as both. I think my position and point is that it can be both, it can be different things to different people, and can evolve while still being "drum & bugle corps" and no need to strip all the unique elements from it. The point is that it will evolve regardless. The kids are better trained now than ever, the design teams are more diverse and creative than ever, the product would continue to refine itself without the need to recreate it into something by definition it is not. Other sports/arts do not feel the need to do this, why must drum corps destroy what made it unique in the name of progress and evolution? Feel free to argue that it has always been "marching band", well then why even have rules or anything? Why aren't all "ball sports" just simply called "sports" instead of baseball/softball/football/etc. They all run around on a field and play with a ball, hence I guess they are all the same. Why seperate music into genres- its all just sound- no need for Bluegrass, Metal, R&B, etc. For that matter, the Bruno Mars Superbowl halftime gig was really entertaining. He was on a football field playing music... it had choreography, it was probably about 11.5 mintues long... I guess that is drum corps, too? I am assuming all the folks who are pushing for DCI to be BOA and saying "its all band anyway" and stuff are former drum corps members? Funny thing is, as someone who marched recently and served on a BOD recently, where were you guys? Everyone I knew/still know currently involved in drum corps was always very proud of the differences and traditions that set drum corps apart. Nobody had the vibe that its all just "marching band" and that people proud of what made Drum & Bugle Corps special were in some way "dinosaurs" or wanting to halt progress. I'd bet a million bucks that for every one person pushing the "its all just marching band" agenda there are MANY more strongly opposed, yet the activity continues to get hijacked. Why? Edited March 3, 2014 by funkjazzaxe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) As far as defining as "sport" vs "art"... can make good case for either. I see it as both. I think my position and point is that it can be both, it can be different things to different people, and can evolve while still being "drum & bugle corps" and no need to strip all the unique elements from it. The point is that it will evolve regardless. The kids are better trained now than ever, the design teams are more diverse and creative than ever, the product would continue to refine itself without the need to recreate it into something by definition it is not. Other sports/arts do not feel the need to do this, why must drum corps destroy what made it unique in the name of progress and evolution? Feel free to argue that it has always been "marching band", well then why even have rules or anything? Why aren't all "ball sports" just simply called "sports" instead of baseball/softball/football/etc. They all run around on a field and play with a ball, hence I guess they are all the same. Why seperate music into genres- its all just sound- no need for Bluegrass, Metal, R&B, etc. For that matter, the Bruno Mars Superbowl halftime gig was really entertaining. He was on a football field playing music... it had choreography, it was probably about 11.5 mintues long... I guess that is drum corps, too? I am assuming all the folks who are pushing for DCI to be BOA and saying "its all band anyway" and stuff are former drum corps members? Funny thing is, as someone who marched recently and served on a BOD recently, where were you guys? Everyone I knew/still know currently involved in drum corps was always very proud of the differences and traditions that set drum corps apart. Nobody had the vibe that its all just "marching band" and that people proud of what made Drum & Bugle Corps special were in some way "dinosaurs" or wanting to halt progress. I'd bet a million bucks that for every one person pushing the "its all just marching band" agenda there are MANY more strongly opposed, yet the activity continues to get hijacked. Why? a) Rules are required when an aspect of the activity is 'competition'. Take out the competitive nature and the rules can be replaced by guidelines or even completely eliminated. b) I agree that the drum corps activity has over the years been unique (and I certainly am in the camp which wants the uniqueness of drum corps instrumentation to stay in-tact); but I also realize that while the level of performance still separates DCI from BOA, the DCI movers and shakers are moving the drum corps activity away from being unique and into the realm of being more and more homogenized with competitive high school marching band instrumentation. c) While I am not going to go so far to state that I will walk away from DCI any time soon, I will state that as a ticket purchaser, not as a dinosaur old fart, but as a ticket purchaser I have no desire to see or hear any DCI corps, whether it is BD, Scouts, Genesis, or 7th Regiment, use the exact same instrumentation as Broken Arrow, L.D. Bell, or any other BOA high school. No matter how much better the 'quality' difference is, I have no real desire to buy a ticket and attend a souped-up BOA type atmosphere (other than going to support a youth I personally know who is involved, which is why I do not see me walking away any time soon). d) As for a drum corps 'technically' being a marching band, again it falls into the same category of all sanctioned football games are sports but not all sports are sanctioned football games; and all drum corps, by definition and to the chagrin of some drum corps diehards, are marching bands but not all marching bands are drum corps. (this also applies to drum corps being art but not all art being drum corps, as well as the drum corps activity being a sport but not all sports activities are drum corps) Edited March 3, 2014 by Stu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkjazzaxe Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Good points, good discussion. It's such a complex thing- the evolution of drum corps- when you really get into it. Like so many things, the very definition of what it is can be very different to different people. I like that it evolves, I wouldn't want to see a mandate that corps couldn't think outside the box and push the boundaries of what is possible (any more than baseball fans would want a rule that a pitcher could only pitch the ball up to a certain speed, or basketball players could only shoot "granny" style, etc). At the same time, the unique sound and elements that place maximal emphasis on human effort (all acoustic, unique instumentation, etc) was one of the things that made drum corps special, to me anyway. I think the activity could and would evolve without the need have a revolution of stripping away all the things that made it unique. The current influx of anything goes instrumentation, electronics, etc seem to stem from the notion that it leads to more creativity, and without the changes drum corps wouldn't evolve and would slowly die and be irrelevant. I disagree, but I guess good argument can be made otherwise depending on the viewpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Are we supposed to solve for X ? X? Is there a new one-letter cuss word that I haven't heard about?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Just as a note; creativity is doing more with less, not more with more. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 What if.. in your scenario here however.. MLB dropped the use of the baseball, and instead decided to use the softball in its place. Would this still be the game of " baseball " in your view and still appropriate to use the nomenclature that a game used with a thrown softball is still a " baseball " game ? Just asking here, mind you. So would it ? If you're asking my opinion, then I'll answer. "Baseball" and "softball" are two different games. Very close in their rules, procedures, and method of winning (he who scores the most runs wins). However, they are different in ball size, basepath size, general field size, etc. Hence, one is baseball, and the other is softball. It is much like football/rugby/Australian Rules Football, Ten-pin bowling/duckpin bowling, and golf/miniature golf. All very close, with one being a slight variation of the other(s) ---BUT---variations, nevertheless. Every activity goes through slight change as time goes on...yet the name doesn't change. I'm not saying I'm correct in my philosophy or conjecture -- it's just the way I feel. And that, first and foremost, is only an opinion -- not fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Good points, good discussion. It's such a complex thing- the evolution of drum corps- when you really get into it. Like so many things, the very definition of what it is can be very different to different people. I like that it evolves, I wouldn't want to see a mandate that corps couldn't think outside the box and push the boundaries of what is possible (any more than baseball fans would want a rule that a pitcher could only pitch the ball up to a certain speed, or basketball players could only shoot "granny" style, etc). At the same time, the unique sound and elements that place maximal emphasis on human effort (all acoustic, unique instumentation, etc) was one of the things that made drum corps special, to me anyway. I think the activity could and would evolve without the need have a revolution of stripping away all the things that made it unique. The current influx of anything goes instrumentation, electronics, etc seem to stem from the notion that it leads to more creativity, and without the changes drum corps wouldn't evolve and would slowly die and be irrelevant. I disagree, but I guess good argument can be made otherwise depending on the viewpoint. This is where things get fuzzy because I disagree with this 'perception is reality mindset' where people are allowed to define things in their own manner. Baseball and Cricket are both defined as sports; they are both even defined as stick-ball sports; all of that is true based on common agreed to authoritative standards; but they are still unique unto themselves. One can attempt to further define the subset stick-ball sport of Baseball as being the same as the stick-ball sport of Cricket, or vice versa, in their 'perception is reality' mindset, but that subset definition of perception would be in error. Unless..... As for the evolution of things; evolution and morphing are two vastly different processes. Cricket, for example, can evolve in adjusting to competitive changes based on the needs within the Cricket framework and still remain unique as Cricket. However, if they began to throw the ball instead of rolling it, changed the inner playing field to a diamond instead of a rectangle, and began adopting other items from the world of Baseball it would remain a stick-ball sport, but at some point it would morph into actually becoming Baseball and cease to be Cricket. This morphing, as opposed to evolving, is what is happening in DCI as of late; while up to this point DCI and BOA units have both been, ouch, marching bands unique unto themselves, DCI is now morphing into being high caliber ‘BOA type’ ensembles instead of evolving within the framework of Drum Corps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Just as a note; creativity is doing more with less, not more with more. says? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I'm not saying I'm correct in my philosophy or conjecture -- it's just the way I feel. And that, first and foremost, is only an opinion -- not fact. This is the 'perception is reality' nonsense I am referring to; you might as well state, "I am not saying that if you eat arsenic laced toadstools you will get ill or worse die because I'm not saying I'm correct in my philosophy or conjecture -- it's just the way I feel." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 says? Reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.