Members have changed so why not the activity

[HornTeacher]

Sorry...don't mean to dominate the board, but...

In thinking about the subject as discussed, I realized that even academia possesses a certain quandary applicable to all this. 2 buddies graduate the same year from college. Buddy A graduates with a "Bachelor of Arts in Physical Education."

Buddy B graduates with a "Bachelor of Science in Music Education."

Yes, I know that the difference in the B.A. vs. B.S. distinction lies within the standards for specific study within any individual institution. Still...I find this to be a rather interesting grammatical enigma.

[Mello Dude]

DCI is a "marching band circuit" and marching bands participate in that circuit. I have to come to the conclusion that when NOTHING you have differentiates you from something that is established in name you become that. Now, if someone can point me to something else called a drum corps that played 2 valve instruments (in the key of G) as a large scale activity I would question this conclusion.

[HornTeacher]

I will concede, however, that perception influences belief structures, perception influences behavior, and that perception will influence situations; but I will not concede that perception changes the reality of something, even down to minor items such as a slide-whistle being a wind instrument and not a percussion instrument.

Just to be a devil's advocate...would a group of 4 pianos be termed a "Percussion Ensemble" (based upon the action of a felt hammer striking the string or strings), or a "String Ensemble" (purely through the use of strings)?

Why can't it simply be a "Piano Ensemble," and leave it at that?

The more things that we create on top of what already exists does little more than further blur the lines of accepted semantic delineation.

[HornTeacher]

DCI is a "marching band circuit" and marching bands participate in that circuit. I have to come to the conclusion that when NOTHING you have differentiates you from something that is established in name you become that. Now, if someone can point me to something else called a drum corps that played 2 valve instruments (in the key of G) as a large scale activity I would question this conclusion.

There once was an activity which consisted of 9 players playing the field on defense, and the same 9 players placed on an offense: such activity was called "Baseball." However, at a point in time, an offensive position was added, which was called the "designated hitter", who would bat in place of one defensive position.

I don't recall a name change to the activity resulting from this action.

[corpsband]

I will concede, however, that perception influences belief structures, perception influences behavior, and that perception will influence situations; but I will not concede that perception changes the reality of something, even down to minor items such as a slide-whistle being a wind instrument and not a percussion instrument.

What you are missing is that simply possessiing some of the elements to meet a dictionary definition may be a necessary part of meeting the definition but it's not sufficient.

sport   Use Sport in a sentence

sport [spawrt, spohrt] Show IPA

noun

1.

an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing,baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

Darts meets the definition above.

Is it a sport?

Hmmm.. Let's consult the dictionary (apparently Stu's definitive tome of "reality").

DARTS Use Darts in a sentence

dart [dahrt] Show IPA

noun

1.

a small, slender missile that is pointed at one end and usually feathered at the other and ispropelled by hand, as in the game of darts, or by a blowgun when used as a weapon.

2.

something similar in function to such a missile, as the stinging member of an insect.

3.

darts, ( used with a singular verb ) a game in which darts are thrown at a target usually marked withconcentric circles divided into segments and with a bull's-eye in the center.

So darts is a GAME not a sport.

REALITY is not based on a dictionary definition.

Drum corps has some of the attributes of sports.

But it's not a sport.

Dictionaries notwithstanding, an activity where musicianship is a key component would not be called a sport by any reasonable person. It's so bloody obvious I can't believe anyone would spend time refuting it.

But this is DCP -- where the bloody obvious is often entirely insufficient.

Edited March 2, 2014 by corpsband

[Mello Dude]

There once was an activity which consisted of 9 players playing the field on defense, and the same 9 players placed on an offense: such activity was called "Baseball." However, at a point in time, an offensive position was added, which was called the "designated hitter", who would bat in place of one defensive position.

I don't recall a name change to the activity resulting from this action.

Bad analogy. That would be the American League circuit for baseball. Now, you you would have said they reduced 2 innings, changed to 6 outs and required aluminum bats..well you know your analogy would be a great point! FWIW I don't consider the DH as ever truly being a good thing for baseball. It takes away a very important part of the game and player capabilities. A pitcher should be able to pitch and bat. But, that's simply my opinion.

[Stu]

All of this going back and forth reminds me of one of my favorite scenes in the movie 'Breakfast Club" which places the perception of something vs. the reality of something into proper light:

John Bender (speaking to Andrew) “I want to be just like you; I figure all I need is a lobotomy and some tights.”

Brian Johnson (looking at Andrew): “You wear tights?”

Andrew Clark: “No, I do not wear tights; I wear the required uniform.”

Brian Johnson: “Tights!”

Andrew Clark: “Shut Up!!!!”

[Stu]

Just to be a devil's advocate...would a group of 4 pianos be termed a "Percussion Ensemble" (based upon the action of a felt hammer striking the string or strings), or a "String Ensemble" (purely through the use of strings)?

Why can't it simply be a "Piano Ensemble," and leave it at that?

The more things that we create on top of what already exists does little more than further blur the lines of accepted semantic delineation.

Before I answer your question, and I promise that will, would you please answer me this first: Pianos do have stings, that is true; but the manner in which the strings produce sound makes it, by definition, a percussion instrument. Would you agree with that premise?

[BigW]

Before I answer your question, and I promise that will, would you please answer me this first: Pianos do have stings, that is true; but the manner in which the strings produce sound makes it, by definition, a percussion instrument. Would you agree with that premise?

I can tell you when the Families of instruments are taught in General Music classes in schools, the Piano is usually classed as a percussion instrument.

[fsubone]

The only thing that can be really agreed on is that everyone definition of drum corps was an affront and abomination to someone else's definition. That's how it's always been, that's how it always will be.