Most difficult shows

[jjeffeory]

You might be thinking of Colorado City, AZ. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_City,_Arizona

My observations and speaking with LDS members come from one city (only a pop. of 8,700) West of St. George, UT.

The Centienial Park people I was thinking of split off from the Colorado City, AZ group of FLDS people but they do live DIRECTLY South and Adjacent to Colorado City, AZ/Hildale, UT in a place they call Centienial Park. I don't know if the area is incorporated, but there's a TV show about the people I'm thinking of on the National Geographic Channel (Bizarre, I know).

Anyway, it's all pretty close to St. George, UT (45 miles East) in SW Utah/NW Arizona and that group of people is very different than the LDS members at large in most of the state and around the world. Point being is that the "LDS community in Utah" is actually less likely to have young grandparents. They tend to go on Religious Mission, then College, then marriage before they have kids. They have kids older than the average. Other branches such as the FLDS people who exist mostly in SW Utah/NW Arizona and their associated splinter groups may have people who fit your joke. Maybe there are some other non mainstream LDS members West of St. George? That's a pretty isolated part of the country.

[Quad Aces]

Been around the activity for a long time, and the combination of drill and horn book in 2012 Crown makes it the most difficult overall package that I have ever seen. So much so that they just couldn't seem to clean it quite enough. IMHO, the staff took the lesson that they learned that year, adjusted (while still maintaining difficulty), and came back the following year with a product whose results speak for themselves.

However, I'm surprised no one has mentioned 1993 BD ("A Don Ellis Portrait") yet, with all of the weird Don Ellis time signatures. I heard an interview with Wayne Downey a year or two ago where he said something like that show was the one that he was most proud of. I'm paraphrasing, but he said that from where they were with catching on to the strange time signatures for most of the season to where they ended up, makes the show the one that he is most proud of (note that they came in 4th that year). Makes you look forward to what Madison is going to do with the Don Ellis stuff this year.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Quad Aces

[Dash Fieldpaint]

Difficult shows are more a matter of perception

A well designed and taught show will often appear more difficult than it is to perform

The most difficult shows are generally a result of poor staff choices and never credited in these conversation because they never got clean

One of the more recent difficult moments that the corps struggled with all year, even at finals was Regiment 2010, that bit with the mellos up front, rotating, playing and running through the ranks – might have been too much for them and not have paid off for credit

A good example of this is 2013 Jersey Surf. The opener drill should not have been written that way. They were asking too much of the members to have step sizes that big while trying to play melodic lines.

[hornandsoccer]

I'm homering this one a bit, but I'd like to throw SCV 11 out there for visual difficulty, as well as music ensemble difficulty, both to (extreme, perhaps?) excess.

[BigW]

Without taking anything away from anything more recent, I think you could make a convincing case for Star 91 as one of if not the most difficult horn books ever.

You beat me to it. Honorable mention in technical merit might be '93 BD. There are moments in '04 PR that are also very challenging in the horn book.

[BigW]

Been around the activity for a long time, and the combination of drill and horn book in 2012 Crown makes it the most difficult overall package that I have ever seen. So much so that they just couldn't seem to clean it quite enough. IMHO, the staff took the lesson that they learned that year, adjusted (while still maintaining difficulty), and came back the following year with a product whose results speak for themselves.

However, I'm surprised no one has mentioned 1993 BD ("A Don Ellis Portrait") yet, with all of the weird Don Ellis time signatures. I heard an interview with Wayne Downey a year or two ago where he said something like that show was the one that he was most proud of. I'm paraphrasing, but he said that from where they were with catching on to the strange time signatures for most of the season to where they ended up, makes the show the one that he is most proud of (note that they came in 4th that year). Makes you look forward to what Madison is going to do with the Don Ellis stuff this year.

You beat me to that as well. Long story short, I wasn't suprised when they took top field brass at Prelims that year at all.

[BigW]

I guess for this thread you would have to also consider what was achieved and not just what was difficult.

YES. That's exactly how a judge would see this.

[N.E. Brigand]

Of course, they could: any good cleaner could make it happen. Apply the basics and breakdown of every angle and it can easily be done. No doubt 27 was the best of the best of the time, but certainly there were others clean and exciting also. YES it can be done today.

OK. I have children who have been in color guard in the last several years. The videos of 27 blow them away: they say, "Mr. Director / Ms. Guard Instructor - can we do something like that?"

Their instructors change the subject.

So, why is it not done today? Especially since you say (and I agree) there were others clean and exciting also. Please, do tell.

It's not done because as wonderful as it was--and it was--it would be a little outdated today. I was a very close person at the time with George Z. and the program, so I do know the wonderful program it was, BUT to say that it couldn't be done today or as clean with that same content is far from true. Corps could certainly be that clean, as well as MANY h.s. programs. That takes NOTHING away from how wonderful, exciting and trend setting it was at the time.

And by "outdated", what you mean is "too easy", is that correct?

Why is that we don't hear orchestral musicians complaining that Beethoven is too easy? Or do they? I've certainly never heard actors complain that Shakespeare is too easy.

[GUARDLING]

And by "outdated", what you mean is "too easy", is that correct?

Why is that we don't hear orchestral musicians complaining that is too easy? Or do they? I've certainly never heard actors complain that is too easy.

no dated just means dated...noone today would create a show like a show was BITD, ..didnt say easy although compared to today YES much easier...compared to today I dont know how we broke a sweat....lol..difficult back then? YES..it was all great and 27 especially were masters at music as well as cutting edge visual for the time. Just guard for example , as good as they were ,....and they were, there was far less responsibility than today.....you cant walk, set and spin like BITD...much more on the musicians also. I answered a post which said todays member or corps could not do what they did or as clean...not true as many others stated also ..today member could not only do it and as others stated clean in in a week or 2...............so thats what the context was. as far as im concerned its silly to compare then to now , mainly because it 2 different animals, although the same in most ways..........also when you talk Beethoven orShakespeare its different....we are in a competitive and judged arena...competition usually makes people push the envelope . now whether a person believes an envelope was pushed or not is another story which can always be debated I guess.

Edited March 9, 2014 by GUARDLING

[IllianaLancerContra]

its not done because as wonderful as it was.....and it was...it would be a little outdated today..............I was a very close person at the time with George Z and the program so I do know the wonderful program it was BUT to say that it couldnt be done today or as clean with that same content is far from true. Corps could certainly be that clean as well as MANY hs programs............that takes NOTHING away from how wonderful , exciting and trend setting it was at the time.

Why would well executed flag & rifle work, including being tossed around to each other (and caught), be dated? OK, throw some dance moves in too, but just because it is from 30 yrs ago doesn't mean it is not effective.

I really don't understand.