All animals are equal (but some are more equal than others)

[GUARDLING]

Not to continue the threadjack (and constant abuse of ellipses) ... but ... maybe ....

Women have seen that the opportunities don't exist for women at the top, so at a certain point, they move on.

well, that can be said for anything , maybe there are just very few spost period at the top...its not like there are thousands of corps ,or positions for ANYONE to take advantage of...putting aside experience, availability,desire, etc etc....its not like its a huge activity

but youre right noomore threadjack,,,OP wasnt about this....I dont think.....lol

Edited March 7, 2014 by GUARDLING

[corpsband]

You are engaging in a false presumption of my statements in order to support your position based on your own bias. If you can show where I stated music is a 'purely’ mechanical effort go ahead, show us! But I did not and you cannot. I merely asked you a few questions on how musical sounds are produced and wanted clarification on how that apples to your contention that music production via physical means is not evaluated in DCI. There is ‘art’ within the production of music in DCI, and there is ‘art’ within the choreography production within Halfpipe; but unless the video concerning the physical effort exhibited by the Cavalier tenor drummer was a falsification, there is just as much physical activity to produce the art of music in DCI as there is in the physical activity to produce the art in slopestyle aerials.

No, I am not. Your contention is that the "physical effort" involved in playing music is somehow equivalent to the physical effort of figure skating. Those are your words. If you want to retract them you may but they were clear and unambiguous.

So producing musical sounds is not accomplished by purely physical means?

Your words, sir. Not mine.

By casting the creation of music in physical terms only, you clearly represented your views.

As I said previously, I have nothing more to add to someone who believes music is merely the sum of the physical efforts involved. And I see no point in explaining how drum corps participants not only engage in purely physical feats (like a runner), they also engage in artistic dance (like a figure skater), and finally create MUSIC. No "sport" does that. No athletic prowess accomplishes that.

THIS is what makes the activity different.

THIS is why it's no sport.

THIS is why your silly argument falls flat on its face.

You've hung yourself by your own petard.

I've never met someone (virtually or otherwise) who is so boneheaded as to believe a marketing slogan (a notoriously inaccurate form of speech) -- clearly designed to portray the ultimate status of drum corps in the marching arts via analogy to the (more familiar) major league of a given sport -- makes the ridiculous conclusion that said slogan PROVES it must be a sport.

Edited March 7, 2014 by JohnZ
personal attack and filter circumvention removed

[Fran Haring]

Thank you for the clarification. It clears things up in my mind and I appreciate that.

A typical monied elitist response.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Fran Haring

[N.E. Brigand]

Well, Stu should be amused that Joe Allison defends new drum corps instrumentation on the grounds that "this is marching music's major league". Pay no attention to the judge using the sports metaphor.

Unfounded.

He doesn't pursue any sort of sport analogies. The "marching music's major league" is used in the context of DCI being highest level of excellence in marching music.

Yes, and that's exactly how DCI has used the term. In both cases, it's a sport metaphor. The term "major league" originated circa 1885 as a reference to baseball. Its primary connotation for most people today will be of professional sports. DCI obviously intended people to think of professional sports when they chose that metaphor as one of their slogans. Allison is undeniably quoting DCI's slogan.

Note that I did not say that this metaphorical usage by DCI or Joe Allison means that drum corps really is a sport. One can jettison this slogan entirely and yet have other grounds on which to argue that drum corps is a sport: for example, Frank Deford's definition of sport quoted in earlier in this thread, which no one here has argued against.

Edited March 7, 2014 by N.E. Brigand

[2muchcoffeeman]

My take on the DCI use of "major league" to describe itself is that the term has long been applied beyond team sports to describe any activity that represents the pinnacle of the craft. In this sense, the term seems apt.

[Jeff Ream]

Mr. Thunderous Goo would like to have a word with you, sir...

Mike

game, match, set

[Jeff Ream]

Idiomatic? Since when did that become the standard? Ninety-five percent of all music ever performed by a drum and bugle corps was not composed for drum and bugle corps. Even Sousa wrote woodwinds into his marches.

One of the foundational, defining ideas of drum corps is that it adapts music to its own, unique setting. The examples are endless, and they are the whole point of the enterprise. Imagine a world in which SCV had never put Simple Gifts into an 80-horn company front. It's a world I prefer not to imagine. Imagine if Dennis DeLucia had never adapted Black Market Juggler for his drum line. Imagine if Wayne Downey had heard Chicago play "Free," and decided, nah. Imagine if the Madison Scouts had not adapted Concerto For Guitar and Jazz Orchestra for brass and percussion. Imagine if the Garfield Cadets had not taken Rocky Point Holiday, a piece written for a wind ensemble, and turned it into a pivot point for the entire drum and bugle corps activity.These are musical/visual moments that form the very DNA of drum and bugle corps. They are the crown jewels, the exemplars of the craft. And our judges are wringing their hands over idiom?

This concept is not unique to drum corps. It is universal to art. The origins of jazz are in spiritual song. Literary romanticism owes much to knowledge about human psychology. Elements of modern art can be traced to earlier periods. Today's pop-music superstars are DJs who can masterfully mix samples of just about any music you can think of. The Manhattan Transfer adapts all forms of music to 4-part harmony. The world of art is a huge mashup.

But note: the blending of ingredients is not done in one universal pot. Hip-hop is still hip-hop; just because there's a sample of Gladys Knight looping around in there doesn't mean the Pips are up there on stage with the DJ. Just because jazz is an outgrowth of gospel music doesn't mean Count Basie put a church choir on stage with his band. And just because the 27th Lancers played "Danny Boy" doesn't mean they dragged a drunken tenor out onto the field to sing into a microphone. Without boundaries to define the form, it all becomes undifferentiated sound. Any artist knows as much. Ansel Adams' photographs were defined as much by what he left out as what he let in. Every schoolkid knows that an essay needs a topic sentence to provide focus and clarity to the composition. All art has boundaries. The NY Philharmonic may play a program of show tunes, but it's still a philharmonic orchestra with all the instrumentation that implies -- and none of the instrumentation that it doesn't. And that's why people will buy tickets to the phil: to see an orchestra play show tunes. God help Garth Brooks if he ever brings Zamfir on stage with him.

If we're going to start worrying whether the instrumentation in DCI is true enough to the composer's original vision, then Blue Knights might as well drop their horns and learn to pick if they're ever going to play Pat Metheny again. Troopers need to start taking vocal lessons, because "Battle Hymn of the Republic" is a spiritual. Phantom better learn to march violins because Tchaikovsky.

Idiom? Seriously? The transfer of idiom from one form to another is the whole point. If we eliminate the distinctions between musical settings, then we lose variety in music. If a restaurant dumps all the ingredients into the same pot, every item on the menu is the same. If drum corps is everything, then it is nothing.

probably one of the best posts I've ever seen on here

[Jeff Ream]

If 'perception is reality' is a truism it has to apply to things like NAMBLA and Caligula; you cannot pick and choose your subject matter and just apply it to DCI. ‘Perception’ mindset philosophy, in which each individual can determine what they want to define and disregard the perception of others, is a theoretical construct; but ‘in reality’ one cannot actually live by that standard, which is my point of bringing in subjects like NAMBLA and Caligula. Because, if ‘perception is reality’ is a truism, people must steer away from making determinations concerning the perceptions of others; we therefore would have no right to address issues in anyone else’s ‘perception’; and how dare we make any legal or moral decisions against anyone who has a different ‘perception’ than you or I have whether it is DCI or somthing else.

dude, for the love of God, stop with the NAMBLA crap before you have the police scanning this place and get your ### busted.

[Jeff Ream]

which exactly why i think the reaction to the rule will far exceed the reaction to it's implementation.

I want to agree with you.

but then again, amps and synths weren't mandatory either.

[Jeff Ream]

I have judged competitive high school marching contests in many States, and have attend BOA, TOB, UIL contests, and the overwhelming majority of competing bands even today use trombones. Some competitive high school bands use 'all' bell front valved brass, but again the majority still use trombones.

I judge in TOB and I see fewer and fewer trombones every year