BRASSO Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) . The Super Bowl winner is called the World Champions in the NFL, and there's no teams outside of the US competing And rightly so. The NFL has no exclusionary policy that prohibits a City franchise from outside the US from seeking admittance to the NFL for competition. The fact that no NFL franchise has elected to do do.. either due to travel, distance, money, talent, interest reasons etc, does not prevent the current winner for making its legitimate claim as " World Champion " . Plus, I assume you understand that until recently, the American version of " football " was not played in 95% of the planet outside of the US, so thats another reason that the Super Bowl winner could make the legitimate claim of "World Champion". in this sport. Similarly, for many years, US never competed in World Soccer international competition. This however, never prevented the Brazilians, for one example, from claiming to be " World Champions " of Soccer, simply because the US ( and other countries as well ) did not enter a team in the competition. Also, the World Basketball Champion used to be declared by other countries as " World Champions of Basketball ", and correctly so, even though the US did not enter their NBA Pro players into that competition. Likewise, unless there is an attempt at institutional exclusion, all these outfits are legitimately given the right to declare themselves " World Champions " as the entire world was given the opportunity, had they chosen, to contend for that World Title with the entry of a team. Edited March 31, 2014 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Why do you describe this like the higher placing corps are evil? Care to explain the bias? there really isn't a better system to test a students ability to learn and their commitment to a corps. Do you know how many people would quit the corps if all spots in the corps were given out at the very first camp? You'd just be holding another audition anyway at the next camp mostly becuase these college and highscool kids don't REALLY understand the commitment they are getting into... and the time and money necessary to actually be in the BEST marching ensembles in the world. More talented kids come out of the wood work as the camps progress ALL the time and in my experience only a handful of the people that actually go to the first audition camp actually end up making the corps for a number of reasons like having conflicts and commitments at the first audition camp. The difference between colleges and drum corps is the college doesn't care as much if you reject their acceptance (unless you are truly exceptional) because you are one of thousands. Not the case with a drum corps where that position is not only a larger drop in the bucket but also harder to find. While is is arguably unfair to spend time and money to keep getting called back till January and eventually cut, there are a number of factors that prevent staff from solidifying their ranks until this time. Not the least of which is that drum corps is a small fish in a big sea of competition and opportunities for young people. Colleges also have wait lists, as they know that not all kids who are accepted will end up going to their school, so they string kids along too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Difference being it's not costing them time and money to be on that wait list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I will revamp what I have already posted: My students who did not make a corps were always on tier 2; and while a token mention was always given to them by the staff in January or February concerning them possibly going elsewhere, they were always ‘highly’ encouraged to just come back to the next camp and receive more training. The spring camps were thus placed in the context of being educational training for future involvement with only that corps as opposed to being an audition process for the upcoming summer. Again this has been my experience as a private instructor since this tier system was implimented by many of the corps. If the corps was honest that the remaining camp time was usefaul as 'training' and it was clear that it was not part of auditioning for that summer, what is the problem? That is not stringing kids along. Personally, I would prefer that those students go someplace where they can march for the summer, but as long as the corps is clear, IMO it is up to the student to decide what he/she wants to do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Difference being it's not costing them time and money to be on that wait list. I never claimed that it does cost them $ to remain on a wait list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) If the corps was honest that the remaining camp time was usefaul as 'training' and it was clear that it was not part of auditioning for that summer, what is the problem? That is not stringing kids along. Personally, I would prefer that those students go someplace where they can march for the summer, but as long as the corps is clear, IMO it is up to the student to decide what he/she wants to do. Here is a general paraphrase of how this was presented to many of my students who were at tier 2; and mind you not just by one corps: “Ok; it is February (or March, or April) and you are on tier 2. You can, if you want, try and go to another corps and audition for them, but just know that they have had people there since November like us. However, you certainly are invited back to our following camps and continue to receive our great instruction from our fine and excellent staff which could potentially propel you into tier 1 with a contract by June, possibly allow you to tour with us as an alternate, and at the very least it will get you very prepared for our November camp for next season.” Of course one might say they were being honest about the situation with other corps, but that is really not true. Many, many, many corps, especially OC corps, would welcome new youth the months of March through June with open arms!!! But instead of encouraging the kids to actually go perform with a so-called inferior corps, they were encouraged to continue receiving instruction from the camps at the so-called superior corps. My take as to why this occurres: I take it that they expect some tier 1 kids to peter-out before summer tour begins or even while on tour, and the corps wants to hedge their bets by keeping a reserve of kids in a pool (ie what I refer to as stringing them along) just in case a few exits by some tier 1 kids happens. And to me that is far from looking out for the best interest of the tier 2 kids but only using them as sacrificial pawns. If DCI were an actual Major League professional competitive organization I would say that system was fine and dandy. But if part of the mission of DCI and DCI corps is to give youth the best possible chance at achieving performance goals, then letting tier 2 kids go early on, and encouraging them to go to a place they can receive that performance outlet, is actually looking out for the best interest of the tier 2 youth. Edited March 31, 2014 by Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) Colleges also have wait lists, as they know that not all kids who are accepted will end up going to their school, so they string kids along too. Colleges do have wait lists; but No, they do not ‘string’ kids along. They do not take the kids money each and every month by having the applicants continually attending monthly seminars and camps and auditions while the university’s acceptance process is under review. Most every college and university level institution I am aware of has one application fee for seeking acceptance and that is it; even the university sports teams or music ensembles do not come close to what many DCI corps do for a tier 1 contract acceptance. And theses institutions highly and I mean 'Highly' recommend potential students apply for multiple schools and then take the best offer of acceptance from the schools in which they applied. Most of these institutions truly are looking out for the best educational experience for the youth who apply. Edited March 31, 2014 by Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCorps Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 Colleges do have wait lists; but No, they do not ‘string’ kids along. They do not take the kids money each and every month by having the applicants continually attending monthly seminars and camps and auditions while the university’s acceptance process is under review. Most every college and university level institution I am aware of has one application fee for seeking acceptance and that is it; even the university sports teams or music ensembles do not come close to what many DCI corps do for a tier 1 contract acceptance. And theses institutions highly and I mean 'Highly' recommend potential students apply for multiple schools and then take the best offer of acceptance from the schools in which they applied. Most of these institutions truly are looking out for the best educational experience for the youth who apply. They have enough money that they don't need to string applicants along. If they relied on tuition to foot the bill, they most certainly would. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) They have enough money that they don't need to string applicants along. If they relied on tuition to foot the bill, they most certainly would. Hmmmm…. so as long as a drum corps is reliant mainly on youth fees for survival, that is a valid reason for them to sweet talk kids for months and months on end, milking high fees from the kids each month; then after many months, and a lot of expended resources from the kids given over to the corps, at that point telling the kids sorry, nope, you did not make it; try again next year. That system is valid and acceptable as long as the corps needs the dough from as many kids as possible to survive? Okey Dokey then; there is only one conclusion we can draw there, which is what a nice and lovely system those corps have is in looking out for the best interest of the youth!!!! Edited March 31, 2014 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Hmmmm…. so as long as a drum corps is reliant mainly on youth fees for survival, that is a valid reason for them to sweet talk kids for months and months on end, milking high fees from the kids each month; then after many months, and a lot of expended resources from the kids given over to the corps, at that point telling the kids sorry, nope, you did not make it; try again next year. That system is valid and acceptable as long as the corps needs the doe from as many kids as possible to survive? Okey Dokey then; there is only one conclusion we can draw there, which is what a nice and lovely system those corps have is in looking out for the best interest of the youth!!!! Venison makes the world go round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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