Stu Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I get what you're saying about "the elite", and I agree with that. But the poll suggests that the difference in drum corps is the experience. Is it only the "elite" corps that provide that experience? Isn't this mentality contributing to kids going home after being cut by their "dream" corps instead of trying out for the other 20 or so corps available to them? I would suggest so. The "experience" of drum corps is available from Surf as much as it is from Cadets. Not to the same instructional level, probably, but mostly the same none-the-less. Most of the studies and surveys done for DCI suggest that kids are less interested in marching top-12 than they are marching DCI. Not much different than a sandlot ball player dreaming about the Indians but smart enough to try out for the Clippers to prove himself and get experience. If a kid applies to an Ivy League academic institution he or she is informed rather quickly if they have or not been accepted without investing much time or capital; then if they move on to applying for a State University they are also informed rather quickly if they have or have not been accepted again without investing much time or capital; then they apply and are accepted rather quickly at a Junior College which does not cost anywhere close to a State university let alone costing the same as an Ivy League institution. However, this is not the scenario with applying and auditioning for most DCI units. The DCI model is as follows: A kid applies to an elite G7 corps where he/she invests a huge amount of time at audition camp and typically also at subsequent call-back camps via being strung along with a tier system instead of being informed very quickly that they are not accepted ,and they end up spending a lot of capital on fees and transportation during that process. Then after months of being on that tier system, when finally informed they are not accepted, the kid is faced with not marching this season or going to a different WC corps or an OC corps where most of them will require the same level of high fees and the same level of transportation costs; even if it is an OC corps (sort of like if a JuCo charged the same fees as an Ivy League even after the Ivy league milked much time and capital out of the kid prior to being told no entrance). ‘This’ situation is where I see the problem is as to why many kids do not go to other DCI corps after being let go by the elite corps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 If a kid applies to an Ivy League academic institution he or she is informed rather quickly if they have or not been accepted without investing much time or capital; then if they move on to applying for a State University they are also informed rather quickly if they have or have not been accepted again without investing much time or capital; then they apply and are accepted rather quickly at a Junior College which does not cost anywhere close to a State university let alone costing the same as an Ivy League institution. However, this is not the scenario with applying and auditioning for most DCI units. The DCI model is as follows: A kid applies to an elite G7 corps where he/she invests a huge amount of time at audition camp and typically also at subsequent call-back camps via being strung along with a tier system instead of being informed very quickly that they are not accepted ,and they end up spending a lot of capital on fees and transportation during that process. Then after months of being on that tier system, when finally informed they are not accepted, the kid is faced with not marching this season or going to a different WC corps or an OC corps where most of them will require the same level of high fees and the same level of transportation costs; even if it is an OC corps (sort of like if a JuCo charged the same fees as an Ivy League even after the Ivy league milked much time and capital out of the kid prior to being told no entrance). ‘This’ situation is where I see the problem is as to why many kids do not go to other DCI corps after being let go by the elite corps. Interesting. All I know about it is what I've read on this site, but at least some folks do audition for multiple corps in the first round. I do get the sense that the audition itself is considered a valuable learning experience. Still, it sounds like it could be a lot more efficient. (Maybe DCI could organize a video audition system for the first round) We're OT, but someone said BD auditions 250 people (I might have misunderstood). That seemed mighty low; do they do video auditions for a first cull? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 We're OT, but someone said BD auditions 250 people (I might have misunderstood). That seemed mighty low; do they do video auditions for a first cull? That's only first time auditonees. At their camps, vets don't show up at auditions, so it's all just new kids. So if they have 100 vets, that's 250 kids fighting for 50 spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 That's only first time auditonees. At their camps, vets don't show up at auditions, so it's all just new kids. So if they have 100 vets, that's 250 kids fighting for 50 spots. Sure, but why isn't it 1000 or more? Spirit announced last year they had over 1000 for the first time. I can't believe it would be so low for BD, unless they do something to keep the numbers down. High fees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Sure, but why isn't it 1000 or more? Spirit announced last year they had over 1000 for the first time. I can't believe it would be so low for BD, unless they do something to keep the numbers down. High fees? Maybe BD is the only honest one. Every corps says they get record numbers at every audition camp every year, but do you really think they all do? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) The more appropriate analogy is that both are colas, not that one brand is another. Competitive drum corps and competitive HS MB are both types of marching bands, like Pepsi and Coke are both types of colas. But of course, the biggest difference is that Coca- Cola and Pepsi spend billions each year in advertisement to compete with one another, and to beat the brains out of one another attempting to diiferentiate themselves from each other with the public. Each has no interest whatsover in becoming the other, and spend considerable time and effort making sure it does not ever occur.;..... And of course, DCI on the other hand, by contrast, goes on bended knee to the Marching Band community to bring its band community members into the the ranks of DCI ranks in the summer , and will do just about anything to become like them in instrumentation if thats what it takes to continue the money flow and personnel in the DCI summer ranks. DCI is not in competition with the Marching Band community ( as ala Coke and Pepsi are ). DCI, lets be honest here, will lay down in the middle of a busy city highway traffic for the Marching Bands, if thats what it takes to get the School and University Marching Band approval. As such, there is no relationship whatsover, imo between this and Coca- Cola & Pepsi and their intense, on going, competitive relationship. Pepsi and Coke have been in intense competition with one another for many years.. And my guess, both prefer it this way, and will probably be competing vs. one another probably into the next century, imo Edited March 31, 2014 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) If a kid applies to an Ivy League academic institution he or she is informed rather quickly if they have or not been accepted without investing much time or capital; then if they move on to applying for a State University they are also informed rather quickly if they have or have not been accepted again without investing much time or capital; then they apply and are accepted rather quickly at a Junior College which does not cost anywhere close to a State university let alone costing the same as an Ivy League institution. However, this is not the scenario with applying and auditioning for most DCI units. The DCI model is as follows: A kid applies to an elite G7 corps where he/she invests a huge amount of time at audition camp and typically also at subsequent call-back camps via being strung along with a tier system instead of being informed very quickly that they are not accepted ,and they end up spending a lot of capital on fees and transportation during that process. Then after months of being on that tier system, when finally informed they are not accepted, the kid is faced with not marching this season or going to a different WC corps or an OC corps where most of them will require the same level of high fees and the same level of transportation costs; even if it is an OC corps (sort of like if a JuCo charged the same fees as an Ivy League even after the Ivy league milked much time and capital out of the kid prior to being told no entrance). ‘This’ situation is where I see the problem is as to why many kids do not go to other DCI corps after being let go by the elite corps. Why do you describe this like the higher placing corps are evil? Care to explain the bias? there really isn't a better system to test a students ability to learn and their commitment to a corps. Do you know how many people would quit the corps if all spots in the corps were given out at the very first camp? You'd just be holding another audition anyway at the next camp mostly becuase these college and highscool kids don't REALLY understand the commitment they are getting into... and the time and money necessary to actually be in the BEST marching ensembles in the world. More talented kids come out of the wood work as the camps progress ALL the time and in my experience only a handful of the people that actually go to the first audition camp actually end up making the corps for a number of reasons like having conflicts and commitments at the first audition camp. The difference between colleges and drum corps is the college doesn't care as much if you reject their acceptance (unless you are truly exceptional) because you are one of thousands. Not the case with a drum corps where that position is not only a larger drop in the bucket but also harder to find. While is is arguably unfair to spend time and money to keep getting called back till January and eventually cut, there are a number of factors that prevent staff from solidifying their ranks until this time. Not the least of which is that drum corps is a small fish in a big sea of competition and opportunities for young people. Edited March 31, 2014 by charlie1223 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 let me clarify by first saying if they add woodwinds, consider my gone from anything DCI. But....to 95% of the world, we're marching band. They don't look closely at the instruments like we do. We're the pregame and halftime entertainment, the groups between balloons and floats in parades. so if DCI wants to call themselves Summer marching Group of People with whatever Instruments, so be it. WGI added percussion in what...1991?.... and it's still Winter Guard International. The Super Bowl winner is called the World Champions in the NFL, and there's no teams outside of the US competing ( New Jersey doesn't count. Hell they call themselves New York teams). DCI has far bigger fish to fry. The more people get bogged down in the trivial ########, the more Nero fiddles in the board room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) Why do you describe this like the higher placing corps are evil? Care to explain the bias? It is always the final choice by the youth to stay, go, or come back; but I remember a time in the not so distant past when the best interest of the youth was to cut them early and highly encourage them to go to a corps where they had a chance of actually performing for the summer. However, today is different. The overwhelming encouragement by the staff today is to not cut but place kids on tier 2 and tier 3; then to sweet talk them into coming back again, and again, and again, and again to their camps with the ‘possible’ hope of maybe moving to tier 1 with a contract by the final spring decision point. This system severely drains the kid’s resources via camp fees and transportation costs. And to me, that is a very self-centered view of the staff engaging in their own self-interest as opposed to the staff looking out for the best interest of the youth. I mean imagine if an instructor and administrator at an Ivy League institution did that to a student who was applying to be accepted at that institution; stringing the kid along for months and months, collecting high fees from the kid each month; then after many months, and a lot of expended resources from the kid given over to the institution from the youth, the kid was told sorry, nope, you did not make it in; try again next year. The school staff would be pummeled by the alumni!!!! On the other hand, if the staff of these corps which are stringing these kids along on with this tier system really, actually, and truly cared about the best interest of the youth, they would cut early; and highly encourage those youth to use their resources to go somewhere in which they have a higher chance at receiving what the kid really desires which is performance, tour, and educational opportunity with a DCI corps all summer long. So, yeah, I think stringing kids along, procuring their resources camp, after camp, after camp, then dumping them at a later date leaving them in a lurch unable to feasibly go to another corps is rather evil. Edited March 31, 2014 by Stu 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) Why do you describe this like the higher placing corps are evil? Care to explain the bias? there really isn't a better system to test a students ability to learn and their commitment to a corps. Do you know how many people would quit the corps if all spots in the corps were given out at the very first camp? You'd just be holding another audition anyway at the next camp mostly becuase these college and highscool kids don't REALLY understand the commitment they are getting into... and the time and money necessary to actually be in the BEST marching ensembles in the world. More talented kids come out of the wood work as the camps progress ALL the time and in my experience only a handful of the people that actually go to the first audition camp actually end up making the corps for a number of reasons like having conflicts and commitments at the first audition camp. The difference between colleges and drum corps is the college doesn't care as much if you reject their acceptance (unless you are truly exceptional) because you are one of thousands. Not the case with a drum corps where that position is not only a larger drop in the bucket but also harder to find. While is is arguably unfair to spend time and money to keep getting called back till January and eventually cut, there are a number of factors that prevent staff from solidifying their ranks until this time. Not the least of which is that drum corps is a small fish in a big sea of competition and opportunities for young people. to you Charlie: Also there are many kids I have had during the audition process that have traveled to come with no intention or expectation of marching. Several every year come for the experience and the audition process and how it works. Many times they go to another corps, or a corps more in fitting to their ability and shine through that corps process. Me , I wouldnt have spent that much money BUT several do every year.There has been a few cases where the very inexperienced kid actually did make it because of determination and potential ability. Unfortunately many dont get what they are getting into and through every days or move in's a few always leave or sent home. The dream is nice, the reality of it is hard work and very long hours. This to some corps can be an issue after cutting another for their spot. Hopefully some corps have alternates, but not all have that luxury. Edited March 31, 2014 by GUARDLING 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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