Does recruiting (sometimes predatory) help or hurt DCI?

[zigzigZAG]

Let's talk "recruiting" and whether this is helping or hurting the activity.

Consider some history first:

How much do you think that the story of the ascendency of the Garfield Cadets, and more recently, the Bluecoats and Crown, have to do with the bankruptcy of nearby corps?

I remember hearing that the Bayonne Bridgemen, who had one of the best drumlines in history in 1982, nearly collapsed before the 1983 season, and members of the drumline and hornline joined Garfield. Just as the Cadets began their three-year championship run, the Bridgemen were in collapse, a process that took from 1982-86, when they finally ceased operations.

The Crossmen also took a huge drop from 8th to 13th from 82 to 83, and I've heard that they lost a number of top members to the Cadets. De facto recruitment had to have happened there too. (I mean, didn't the Cadets 'recruit' their young corps director from the Crossmen?)

Notice how the Glassmen folding has hugely benefited the Bluecoats?

Orlando Magic's collapse and Spirit's decline in the 2000s (finishing 15th, 16th, 17th in 08, 09, and 10) directly coincided with the rise of Crown.

I'm not directly arguing that corps are predatory, but there are very few truly talented people out there who can spin, drum, and march at the highest level. Someone's or something's convincing top members to switch - staff, hype, better show design, musical program choice.

Geography helps, but what helps most is that if corps in a particular area have collapsed, leaving one or two standing.

Crown's rise has a lot to do with the fact that they are one of only two world class corps in all of the south, a region of 85 million.

Consider this: one comparatively tiny geographical area in the midwest (talking a 120 mile radius) has the Cavies, Phantom, Blue Stars, Colts, and Madison. The population in that area is about 13 million, one-sixth of the southern recruitment area of Crown and Spirit. The entire midwest's population, by the way, is 55 million.

It's almost unheard of that Phantom has an amazing year when the Cavaliers or Madison do the same. Recruiting waves explain a lot of it.

Best clear example of recruiting I can think of:

I had a friend who marched Madison in 1988 for his age-out year (had marched Cadets in '87), and he told me that they had a huge influx of talent that year because they announced early that they were going on a European tour. Voila! Ce n'est pas une coincidence. That's their only championship year. Giving incentives to join - like a month-long European trip - certainly is recruitment.

There is very little written about this on the forum, if anything.

Does this hurt or help the activity? I'm thinking it hurts - hard for corps to stabilize membership, and further consolidation puts corps out of reach of many, whose parents don't necessarily want their kids to commute 500 or 1000 miles to rehearse through the winter and early spring.

This activity has become very elite, and very elitist. Too many corps have folded to make DCI accessible and influential. Heck, I wouldn't ever have known about it had it not been for PBS in the 80s, back when there was at least one drum corps within 200 miles of 90% of the US population.

No more. While the level of performance has risen, as you'd expect with consolidation of talent in the hands of very few corps, DCI's real impact on the country has dramatically declined.

DCI's main fundraising effort should be focused on generating the cash necessary to have finals broadcast on every PBS station nationally every year. DCI in theaters, where you're preaching to the choir, is nothing, nothing at all, like national TV.

It's less about music education and more about competition for smaller and smaller crowds at fewer events (and no national audience on TV anymore, which is a tragedy.)

Corps have a disincentive to help a friend in need. They'd rather take the talent of the collapsing corps and raise their score next year. Yes, corps do a few one-off clinics, but not nearly enough of them, and those clinics are as much about recruitment as they are about education.

So, in reality, because everyone's so obsessed with competition, and because competition requires aggressive recruitment, growth becomes predatory. On the entire activity. Which means "growth" isn't growth at all, just consolidation and elitism, which results in evaporation of audiences and the disappearance of any truly national media.

We've consolidated and recruited ourselves into a nearly irrelevant ghetto.

Edited June 27, 2014 by zigzigZAG

[c mor]

Ask BRASSO about transfer policies.

As to your TV comment, I still think only corps and marching band people would watch it. The only way a "regular" person would is if he were invited to a corps/band person's house for a party and offered Brats & Beers.

[va9590jm]

I had a friend who marched Madison in 1988 for his age-out year (had marched Cadets in '87), and he told me that they had a huge influx of talent that year because they announced early that they were going on a European tour. Voila! Ce n'est pas une coincidence. That's their only championship year. Giving incentives to join - like a month-long European trip - certainly is recruitment.

First, lets get facts straight here: Madison has won twice. Not once. 1988 was their second championship, after having won back in 1975.

[2muchcoffeeman]

DCI's main fundraising effort should be focused on generating the cash necessary to have finals broadcast on every PBS station nationally every year. DCI in theaters, where you're preaching to the choir, is nothing, nothing at all, like national TV.

This would be a costly mistake. With every passing day, there is less and less "national TV." Mass media is over. Instead, media have become a mass of niches. The Fan Network, regardless of any of its shortcomings, is nonetheless on the right track: direct marketing of the product to consumers who want to buy it.

[Kamarag]

DCI's main fundraising effort should be focused on generating the cash necessary to have finals broadcast on every PBS station nationally every year. DCI in theaters, where you're preaching to the choir, is nothing, nothing at all, like national TV.

Right, because if there's any channels young people watch, it's PBS /eyeroll

Look, broadcast TV is the very *last* place DCI should ever be. It's a giant fiscal fail from start to finish to even consider it. The best thing corps can do to attract talent is very simple: don't suck.

[jwillis35]

Well, where do I begin.

• Let's address the question of recruiting from our own or from within. When a person marches with a corps, they essentially sign a 1-year contract (written or just hand-shake agreement). They are only responsible to the corps and its' schedule for that off-season and summer if they wish to march their spot. Once the summer is over, whether it ends at Finals, Semis, Quarters, or Open Class Championships, that marcher's commitment is no longer there. They can march the next year, if they make the corps, but with many top units there is not always a guarantee a marcher will make the unit the next year. So if such a possibility exits, then I think it's fair to say that the marcher has a right to pursue other options.

• Purging is good! For those marchers that tend to move from one corps to the next, it's probably best that they do so. That would not be the best person for building your corps long-term. There are certain individuals who will "bleed" the colors of their corps, and those are the kids you want to keep. The marchers that move on to the next level (as they see it) can do what they want, but their moving on might actually be best for their previous drum corps. Purging and replenishing is a good things for every drum corps.

• The notion that the decline of one corps correlating with the rise of another is often misinterpreted and never fully documented or fairly described. Have their been times when one corps began to "take off," and another corps not far away died a slow (or fast) death. Yes. Many times actually, and you've described a few. In each of those instances was it the fault of the corps that survived? No. Was the corps that survived partially responsible? Mostly no, and in some cases maybe. If you marched with corps A, but they were folding in a year, and Corps B was only 100 miles away and they were growing and getting better; wouldn't you consider that corps for the next year? Many would. But let's get to the real issues:
  • A drum and bugle corps does NOT die because it can't find anyone to march. It does not die because of placement. Certainly the higher placing corps can get better deals and they attract better talent; but the existence of any corps, even those with moderate talent, need ONE THING...Money! Without money a drum corps will DIE! If you have money and can provide excellent instruction with excellent, fun, and safe travel, I believe you can find kids who want to tour.
  • Drum corps that died--like Bridgemen, Glassmen, 27th Lancers, etc.--had major financial issues. When you can't pay instructors, pay your bills, pay for instruments, repairs, travel safely, develop quality shows, and feed your members the right way, you will suffer; and you will lose membership. End of story. This is not the fault of the other local/regional corps. It's the fault of the corps with bad finances, bad management, no volunteers, no support systems in place, and no revenue generators besides tour dues.
• There are lots of rumors about how various units died and how "so and so" stole their kids, or how "so and so" sabotaged their organization in some way. Most of this is urban legend, myth, rumor, hearsay, and whatever else you want to call it. There was an older model to running a drum corps (60s and 70s) and that model faded way fast due to legislation, new laws, bus insurance, health rules, cost of instruction, and much more.

• You mentioned the Bluecoats at the top of your initial post. I can tell you that Bluecoats had nothing to do with the demise of the Glassmen. The former director of that corps, DCI, and the banks can probably answer that question much better. It's sad, and I wish they were still around, but that had everything to do with money. Unless you think the Bluecoats robbed their bank, I believe the Glassmen issue is all about money, and perhaps some mismanagement.

[Cappybara]

This post makes me wonder, would the activity benefit if it was required that members can only march a corps for one year and then must move on to another? It's controversial and I can see how it may turn people off from marching since they may have to travel a lot further than they would like, but I can't help but wonder how different the top 12 would be if that happened.

[zigzigZAG]

Well, where do I begin.

• Let's address the question of recruiting from our own or from within. When a person marches with a corps, they essentially sign a 1-year contract (written or just hand-shake agreement). They are only responsible to the corps and its' schedule for that off-season and summer if they wish to march their spot. Once the summer is over, whether it ends at Finals, Semis, Quarters, or Open Class Championships, that marcher's commitment is no longer there. They can march the next year, if they make the corps, but with many top units there is not always a guarantee a marcher will make the unit the next year. So if such a possibility exits, then I think it's fair to say that the marcher has a right to pursue other options.

• Purging is good! For those marchers that tend to move from one corps to the next, it's probably best that they do so. That would not be the best person for building your corps long-term. There are certain individuals who will "bleed" the colors of their corps, and those are the kids you want to keep. The marchers that move on to the next level (as they see it) can do what they want, but their moving on might actually be best for their previous drum corps. Purging and replenishing is a good things for every drum corps.

• The notion that the decline of one corps correlating with the rise of another is often misinterpreted and never fully documented or fairly described. Have their been times when one corps began to "take off," and another corps not far away died a slow (or fast) death. Yes. Many times actually, and you've described a few. In each of those instances was it the fault of the corps that survived? No. Was the corps that survived partially responsible? Mostly no, and in some cases maybe. If you marched with corps A, but they were folding in a year, and Corps B was only 100 miles away and they were growing and getting better; wouldn't you consider that corps for the next year? Many would. But let's get to the real issues:
  • A drum and bugle corps does NOT die because it can't find anyone to march. It does not die because of placement. Certainly the higher placing corps can get better deals and they attract better talent; but the existence of any corps, even those with moderate talent, need ONE THING...Money! Without money a drum corps will DIE! If you have money and can provide excellent instruction with excellent, fun, and safe travel, I believe you can find kids who want to tour.
  • Drum corps that died--like Bridgemen, Glassmen, 27th Lancers, etc.--had major financial issues. When you can't pay instructors, pay your bills, pay for instruments, repairs, travel safely, develop quality shows, and feed your members the right way, you will suffer; and you will lose membership. End of story. This is not the fault of the other local/regional corps. It's the fault of the corps with bad finances, bad management, no volunteers, no support systems in place, and no revenue generators besides tour dues.
• There are lots of rumors about how various units died and how "so and so" stole their kids, or how "so and so" sabotaged their organization in some way. Most of this is urban legend, myth, rumor, hearsay, and whatever else you want to call it. There was an older model to running a drum corps (60s and 70s) and that model faded way fast due to legislation, new laws, bus insurance, health rules, cost of instruction, and much more.

• You mentioned the Bluecoats at the top of your initial post. I can tell you that Bluecoats had nothing to do with the demise of the Glassmen. The former director of that corps, DCI, and the banks can probably answer that question much better. It's sad, and I wish they were still around, but that had everything to do with money. Unless you think the Bluecoats robbed their bank, I believe the Glassmen issue is all about money, and perhaps some mismanagement.

__________________

Willis, I've really respected and enjoyed your posts over the years, by the way. I didn't mean that somehow corps conspire to kill off their neighbors. What I am saying is that clearly corps like the Cadets, Bluecoats, Crown, among others, have greatly benefited from the decline and collapse of nearby competing corps. (I forgot to mention how much the Cadets also benefited from the decline and collapse of the 27th Lancers. Think of it - two elite corps - 27th Lancers and Bridgemen - decline and collapse exactly when the Cadets begin their championship run in the mid-80s. No coincidence at all. Not a conspiracy, though, don't get me wrong.

No need for purging low-quality members. Clearly the talent congregates and consolidates.

I'm also saying that recruiting happens. 1988 Madison - their 50th anniversary year - with a European trip, was a boon for that corps' recruitment. They went from 7th and 6th in the two previous years, to a championship, and then back to 6th and 7th in the next few years. Definitely an aberration, and due to incentives (trip, attention of 50th anniversary, etc.) they were able to recruit talent away from other corps for one year of living high on the hog. And they had a great show. (Sorry I forgot about the championship in 75, Madison fans! Way before my time.)

Active recruitment away from other corps couldn't be a good thing, except for the corps wanting to "trade up" or go over the salary cap, as it were, (like many sports teams do) for a championship run.

[actucker]

How have Bluecoats benefitted from Glassmen folding exactly?

I think back when drum corps was more regional in terms of membership, you might have a point. That's not the case anymore. Members fly all over the country to march top programs. Very few world class drum corps are comprised of local members. Bluecoats' drum line is comprised largely of guys from southern California for example (according to the interview on the cinecast).

I think this phenomenon is a little more likely in indoor, where members are much more regional. If you want to march Matrix, for example, but you live in Florida, you're probably moving to Ohio for 6 months.

All of that being said, I don't know of a single instance in which one drum corps has actively poached members away from other drum corps. The idea of "moving up" is more member motivated in my experience.

[zigzigZAG]

How have Bluecoats benefitted from Glassmen folding exactly?

I think back when drum corps was more regional in terms of membership, you might have a point. That's not the case anymore. Members fly all over the country to march top programs. Very few world class drum corps are comprised of local members. Bluecoats' drum line is comprised largely of guys from southern California for example (according to the interview on the cinecast).

I think this phenomenon is a little more likely in indoor, where members are much more regional. If you want to march Matrix, for example, but you live in Florida, you're probably moving to Ohio for 6 months.

All of that being said, I don't know of a single instance in which one drum corps has actively poached members away from other drum corps. The idea of "moving up" is more member motivated in my experience.

Bluecoats drumline is "largely" from California? At most that would mean six guys. We have another 110+ to talk about here, and I'd venture to say most are from Ohio or driving distance away.

Drum corps is still very much regional. Most members are driving to auditions and rehearsals. How many Crown members are from the NYC/Boston area? Or Cadets members from South Carolina or Florida? Blue Devils members from Illinois? C'mon, let's not distort reality.

Regarding the 'coats - If you have two top-12 corps in the same northern half of the same state, it divides the talent. It also divides financial support, staff, etc. etc., in an era of diminishing resources and increasing expenses.

Look, don't take my word for it. Look at the finals performances. Glassmen were top 5 in the late 90s early 2000's and Bluecoats were barely breaking top 12. (The year of Glassmen's highest finish - 5th in 1999 - the Bluecoats didn't even make finals. Not a random coincidence. Coats were 10th in 98 too, when Glassmen also finished 5th, and Coats were 12th in 2000)

Then Glassmen decline through the 2000s, and in the last few years, precipitously (out of the top 12), and Bluecoats rise.

Recruiting happens. Madison 1988 is the most glaring example. And Bridgmen/27th Lancers collapse coinciding with Cadets' rise is incontrovertible.

The talent base is decreasing. Kids are busier and focusing on other things.

That's why DCI (read: corps staff, members, alumni) should do MUCH more educating and less obsession with competition, which drives consolidation, elitism, and a shrinking of the activity and its audience.

Heck, almost all we talk about around here is competition, judging, etc., while the activity itself declines.

At the rate we're heading, in 10 or 15 years, there will only be 12 or fewer world class corps, so we can eliminate semi-finals altogether.

Education should be everyone's focus.