The Troopers, the American Legion, and a Rebuttal

[JimF-LowBari]

the identity has been in question as far as holding them back many times, from uniform to design choices. Not just by outsiders either ( not troopers, Cabs)

But yet Cabs are usually up there in spite of how much the identity might be holding them back. Question would be what is the difference between the organizations.

[Eleran]

And let's not forget, even when Troopers don't do Old West/Copland themes themselves, so many other corps do Copland, or a one-off western show (see Music City this season), that the niche Trooper's enjoy gets further saturated. Which frankly makes it even more imperative that they broaden their scope (eg. Copland three years running from 2010-2012).

[GUARDLING]

But yet Cabs are usually up there in spite of how much the identity might be holding them back. Question would be what is the difference between the organizations.

up there and winning maybe when they could have are 2 different things BUT . I think maybe Troopers don't have to be as pigeon hold as many think. Sometimes its not what you decide to do BUT how it is done. Is it fresh, current, musically and visually pleasing, challenging but achievable, Hvae you taken something old and done it in a new way, has a corps explored more than the obvious.

[MelloMatt]

And let's not forget, even when Troopers don't do Old West/Copland themes themselves, so many other corps do Copland, or a one-off western show (see Music City this season), that the niche Trooper's enjoy gets further saturated. Which frankly makes it even more imperative that they broaden their scope (eg. Copland three years running from 2010-2012).

If you listen to 4 piano blues (particularly muted and sensuous, which is what Troop used in '11), it doesnt sound very much like the "Old West" style people complain about. Id argue that '11 is the biggest departure from the old west style that y'all are complaining about

[Eleran]

But yet Cabs are usually up there in spite of how much the identity might be holding them back. Question would be what is the difference between the organizations.

I don't pretend to have near the experience of others, and I know you will all correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there a slightly different focus among the junior corps and the all-age corps, both membership and audience (I couldn't say about judges)? It seems to me that the youth corps include an underlying thrust for something new and different because youth are always trying to rebel from what was done before, whereas the older performers/audiences, moreso the alumni corps perhaps, have a much greater toleration, and even desire, to hear their old favorites? I know the DCA show I attended this season had a lot more grey hair in the audience than the DCI shows I attended.

For example, Malaguena has been played just 5 times in the last decade by Junior Corps, only 1 of which was by a DCI World Class corps, as opposed to 12 times by Senior/Alumni corps, including twice by Cabs. Troopers run the danger, as American's darling corps, of designing shows that may appeal more to senior/alumni corps audiences.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Eleran

[JimF-LowBari]

up there and winning maybe when they could have are 2 different things BUT . I think maybe Troopers don't have to be as pigeon hold as many think. Sometimes its not what you decide to do BUT how it is done. Is it fresh, current, musically and visually pleasing, challenging but achievable, Hvae you taken something old and done it in a new way, has a corps explored more than the obvious.

Think you're hitting what I was trying to get at but couldn't find the right words. Operative word is "HOW" things are done.

LOL Cabs came to mind because I watched their current show on DCA FN and thought "This is ####### Hawthorne?" it is but in so may ways it's not the way it was done in the past.

Edited August 19, 2014 by JimF-LowBari

[JimF-LowBari]

I don't pretend to have near the experience of others, and I know you will all correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there a slightly different focus among the junior corps and the all-age corps, both membership and audience (I couldn't say about judges)? It seems to me that the youth corps include an underlying thrust for something new and different because youth are always trying to rebel from what was done before, whereas the older performers/audiences, moreso the alumni corps perhaps, have a much greater toleration, and even desire, to hear their old favorites? I know the DCA show I attended this season had a lot more grey hair in the audience than the DCI shows I attended.

For example, Malaguena has been played just 5 times in the last decade by Junior Corps, only 1 of which was by a DCI World Class corps, as opposed to 12 times by Senior/Alumni corps, including twice by Cabs. Troopers run the danger, as American's darling corps, of designing shows that may appeal more to senior/alumni corps audiences.

What I noticed is of the corps that have both Alumni-type and competing corps (off the top of my head Buccs, Sky, Cabs, ??) the Alumni-type play the old/well known style and the competing will change the style to keep up. But in todays (unlike the 70s LOL) shows in DCA you don't hear any repeats year to year from the same corps. Funny how Malaguena keeps cropping up again and again over the decades. Think I even caught it when I was scanning Govenaires show last night on FN.

Edit: The Alumni types will repeat numbers, some because they don't have the time to pick up a whole new show every year and some because it is the old favorite or "theme song" of the corps.

Edited August 19, 2014 by JimF-LowBari

[Eleran]

If you listen to 4 piano blues (particularly muted and sensuous, which is what Troop used in '11), it doesnt sound very much like the "Old West" style people complain about. Id argue that '11 is the biggest departure from the old west style that y'all are complaining about

True, and I think over the last several years, they have actually incorporated a number of non-traditional pieces. I just think they may have undermined those efforts a bit with some of their other shows. And if I am fighting a reputation of over-reliance on a composer or theme, I would avoid that composer for a long while, even if it is an a-typical piece (eg. I don't believe any drum corps has ever performed an arrangement of Copland's Danzon Cubano, but I would still suggest Troopers avoid it playing it until they've gone at least 10 seasons without any Copland).

Copland is so ultra-saturated within DCI that it's even made its way into certain avatars of DCP posters!

Edited August 19, 2014 by Eleran

[N.E. Brigand]

Was this actually said anywhere? I could take the post you linked as saying people in 1977 could enjoy the show just like people in 2014. Seriously unless there is another post buried somewhere this could be taken in different ways and you took it as an insult and it was off to the races on DCP.

And again this was written by a person who marched in 1977, not a "kid". Yet some of the posts here make it sound like a younger person wrote it.

My impression is that there were several posts over the summer by different people in different threads complaining that both Troopers and Madison were stuck in the past. One that I recall reading compared Troopers' show unfavorably to this year's production by Bluecoats, saying that the latter were making bold choices in American music; another complained that Troopers were fetishizing an Old West that never existed outside of the movies.

[N.E. Brigand]

I love the passion with the OP!

BUT... (LOL) all this analyzing for drum corps? I thought we did some weird things back in the '70s, but some of you topped us by far!

Has anyone done a test on the loudness of Bb vs. G bugles? How many rudiments are played 1976 vs today?

Are you saying that we should care less about drum corps? Does your question also apply to garfield's 990s thread? Should we as fans not really be interested in that sort of thing?