Jeff Ream Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Okay, cool. So let's examine why Cadets went over-the-top with Americana this year and got a medal. Why would any kid, let alone some of the best talent in the pool, go to Cadets for that kind of program? Bluecoats had more American flags spinning on the field in 2013 than even the Troopers did. They even did a parade block. But what really intrigues me is the argument that "Looking for America" was "a modern American drum corps show done right." What made it "right"? What made that show more "modern" than the Troopers' "Magnificent 11"? What elements were present in the Bluecoats show that were missing from the Troopers show? because for so long the Troopers were not a top corps, "Murica" has been the cop out excuse for people not wanting to go there. if you think back less than 10 years ago, they didn't even field. Now they made finals once, and haven't been that far away in a few other years since their return. What changes? design and staff on an annual basis. stop that from happening... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleran Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 And PPS ... regarding that one person's post about the show sounding like it would be at home in 1977 ... it is interesting to note that Trooper's 1977 show ALSO included "Shenandoah" and music by Copland. I think this is more to the point of that poster's critique - not the age of the composition, but perhaps the over-reliance on repeated themes, selections and composers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchcoffeeman Posted August 19, 2014 Author Share Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) I think your second interpretation of the critique is much more accurate than your first. When evaluating and comparing the musical merit of Nicolai Rimsky-Korsakov to Samuel Augustus Ward, I think the discussion has very little to do with the date of composition. There is a time and place for music perceived as "quaint", but in today's age it probably has to be used a little more sparingly to be accepted (eg. - Boston was able to effectively quote Old MacDonald and Darling Clementine because they fit an otherwise untraditional show). Throw in one such song a year instead of 4-5. And regarding your comparison to Cadets, and pointing out that Cadets medalled with similar music, (a) from the fans point of view Cadets were heavily criticized (at least here in DCP) throughout the season for musical selections that seemed at best a little too well-trodden, and (b) from the judges point of view, Troopers' score this season was better than 3 out of the last 4 seasons. I do think Troopers (who remain on my son's long list of corps to potentially join) would benefit by expanding their view of music that remains solidly American (eg. they've never touched Hanson or Hovhaness), and not be so willing to repeat prior selections and composers (eg. 8 of the last 20 shows have included Copland) An excellent response, thanks. It digs into the mystery of why Troopers can be so beloved and yet so boxed in by their musical identity. This is ultimately what I'm interested in exploring. Their programming sweet spot seems to be the smallest and most elusive of any corps. ADD: Point taken re BAC. And I would agree that 4 or 5 "quaint" tunes would be overdoing it. But here again, the perception of Troopers being "quaint" bumps up against the reality of what they actually do on the field. Let's take this year: Opener was taken from music composed for a movie that released in 2012. "Ramparts" was composed in 1965, has never been performed by Troopers, and was last played by a DCI corps in 1980, thirteen years before today's oldest marching members were even born. Third movement (pit feature) is a Rennick original. We're 60 percent of the way through the show, and so far, Troop hasn't played a note of anything from a previous year, or from the Quaint Catalog. Next is "Lincoln Portrait," infused with a healthy dose of "Shenandoah," which of course can be dangerous because it is potentially overly familiar ground, though they haven't touched either one since their 2007 return and it was arranged completely anew, with 2014 judging and audience sensibilities in mind. Then of course there's "American the Beautiful" and, guilty as charged, the big 'Murica hammer, though the crowds sure seemed to like it okay. Edited August 19, 2014 by 2muchcoffeeman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCorps Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Here, it's perception vs. reality. In reality, the OP is right. Troopers are playing newer music than many corps who lack the same criticism. Perception, however, always rules the day. I just think it's funny that when Troopers bring back their roots, it's dated. When Madison does it, it's amazing. I think that's more about DCP representation than reality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchcoffeeman Posted August 19, 2014 Author Share Posted August 19, 2014 This! This! Why not some Paul Creston? Charles Tomlinson Griffes? Amy Beach? George Whitefield Chadwick? There is a TON of great music by American composers that remains untouched by DCI. Also, broaden your show design concepts. Maybe the Troopers are regarded as "old-fashioned" because literally every single one of their show designs the past 20 years has been about 1820-1920 America: the Old West, the Civil War, the emergence of the steam engine, and on and on and on. Pioneer does the same thing with the Irish theme, but Pioneer approaches DCI a bit differently than the other World Class corps. Pushing for Finals and being ultra-competitive is not at the core of what Pioneer is about. And yet I feel the Troopers, while maybe not ULTRA-competitive, do want to be a consistent Finalist. I don't think you can manage that with one foot in the past and one in the present, serving the judges and the audience the same flavor of show every year. Another good response, thanks. I think we're all getting to the heart of the matter here. I do agree that Troopers are seeking competitive validation. They helped create DCI, DCI uses competition as the definition of success; ergo the Troopers seek competitive success. In these subjective, GE-dominated, build-up times, the Trooper's very narrow window of programming opportunity is a challenge that must be met, beyond the universal challenges of musical and visual performance that all corps face. I'd like to ask you to expand: Do you see 2013 and 2014 Troopers being "the same flavor"? I saw big differences in demand, sophistication, maturity. So I'm intrigued by the observation that it was essentially a repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchcoffeeman Posted August 19, 2014 Author Share Posted August 19, 2014 I think this is more to the point of that poster's critique - not the age of the composition, but perhaps the over-reliance on repeated themes, selections and composers. Perhaps. Though, earlier this season I dug into that question a bit and found that Troopers have had less repetition in their programming since their return year of 2007 than some other, higher-ranked corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 An excellent response, thanks. It digs into the mystery of why Troopers can be so beloved and yet so boxed in by their musical identity. This is ultimately what I'm interested in exploring. Their programming sweet spot seems to be the smallest and most elusive of any corps. Same can be said for Hawthorne Caballeros over on the All Age side. Yet they kept their identity while changing their show style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchcoffeeman Posted August 19, 2014 Author Share Posted August 19, 2014 if you think back less than 10 years ago, they didn't even field. Now they made finals once, and haven't been that far away in a few other years since their return. What changes? design and staff on an annual basis. stop that from happening... I think the administration recognizes this, and has recognized it for a while. They brought in the Van Doren Team after 2012, and as far as I know (which is very little), they will remain in place at least through the next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) Same can be said for Hawthorne Caballeros over on the All Age side. Yet they kept their identity while changing their show style. the identity has been in question as far as holding them back many times, from uniform to design choices. Not just by outsiders either ( not troopers, Cabs) Edited August 19, 2014 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchcoffeeman Posted August 19, 2014 Author Share Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) I say [bluecoats 2013] was "done right" because it didn't hit you in the face with traditional American patriotism. It was subtle. It played music that many had never heard before and the style itself of the show was modern (the props, the colorguard unis, and the overall feel of the show. Stuff like the high stepped sunburst that the troopers did kinda screamed "old" and "tradition"). Battle Hymn of the Republic is the last thing I would picture as "modern" (referring to your question about Magnificent 11). Okay, thank you. But, color me confused. Edited August 19, 2014 by 2muchcoffeeman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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