Cappybara Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) If you read the reports from members, that's what happened. Most of the complaints were from before Waters took over the band, and he did put a very quick stop to multiple bad activities, including alcohol consumption on trips. That was always a huge issue when I was in college band. Geez, reading through the full report, if only they knew what happens on pretty much every corps bus (excusing BDC, because of course) "My dad shot his sister so it's okay if I kill mine too" (extreme example, but you get my point) Yeah, that's not how it works. If BS like that is going on in DCI (which, I wouldn't be surprised if it is.), then DCI as an organization needs to crack down on this behavior with their own investigations. Because eventually, an incident is going to happen and it will leak out somehow. I can almost guarantee it with the availability of social media. Edited August 30, 2014 by Cappybara 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Yeah, that's not how it works. If BS like that is going on in DCI (which, I wouldn't be surprised if it is.), then DCI as an organization needs to crack down on this behavior with their own investigations. Because eventually, an incident is going to happen and it will leak out somehow. I can almost guarantee it with the availability of social media. Ever participated in DCI? Yeah, stuff happens. Rookie talent nights, underwear runs, pranks, general shenanigans. And it's MUCH more tame than it was when most of the people on here marched. No more drinking or drug usage on buses for one, sexual harassment has been pretty much stamped out of all well-run organizations. But when you put 150 people together on busses for three months, things are bound to get crazy. I doubt DCI has the manpower to put every corps through some sort of investigative procedure, so leave it to the corps' managements to take care of issues. But I've never seen or experienced anyone forced to do anything they didn't want to. Corps are pretty much volunteer based. Every member comes in and auditions for a spot, they're not forced to be there. If we really want our kids to be safe, I guess we could wrap them all in bubble wrap, and assign chaperones for fully-grown adults. /sarcasm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Ever participated in DCI? Yeah, stuff happens. Rookie talent nights, underwear runs, pranks, general shenanigans. And it's MUCH more tame than it was when most of the people on here marched. No more drinking or drug usage on buses for one, sexual harassment has been pretty much stamped out of all well-run organizations. But when you put 150 people together on busses for three months, things are bound to get crazy. I doubt DCI has the manpower to put every corps through some sort of investigative procedure, so leave it to the corps' managements to take care of issues. But I've never seen or experienced anyone forced to do anything they didn't want to. Corps are pretty much volunteer based. Every member comes in and auditions for a spot, they're not forced to be there. If we really want our kids to be safe, I guess we could wrap them all in bubble wrap, and assign chaperones for fully-grown adults. /sarcasm Holy crap do you not understand this concept? Just because something occurred in the past or was worse before does not make current conditions acceptable. You're not going to get any sort of progress with that type of attitude. If they're not being forced, I see no issue. If there isn't any sexual harassment, I see no issue. But IF harassment IS occurring under the noses of the staff on buses, then the staff of the corps needs to pull it together and put their foot down, adults or not. I'm aware corps are volunteer based. So is participating in a camp over the summer for a sport or whatever. But if harassment is occurring during that camp, then it's not okay. Because that's clearly not what the kids are signing up for and I doubt there's a clause in their contract that indicates that they should expect treatment like that. Edited August 30, 2014 by Cappybara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubaJon Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 And I never mentioned drum corps. I'm not trying to tie this to drum corps. Are you? I think it is clear that I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordsterr Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 What the Dispatch failed to report is that publishers are denying licenses because the university was inappropriate in the firing of the director. This comes from open letters by people working in the field of music licensing. There is much made by some people here of the sex act simulation, the nick names, the drinking, the midnight ramp. Unfortunately, the evidence is being ignored. It's clear from members of the band that parties where the nicknames were passed out we're private parties and not part of band activities. Yes, some students behaved like fraternity members. How can the director control that? In other words, when my friend Pat wax asked what his nickname was, he responded "Pat." Here in Columbus, I have heard from many past and present members that Jon banned drinking on trips, immediately ended the Trip tic, ended the midnight ramp, confiscated and destroyed song books when students were caught with them and brought in people to talk to the band about drinking and sexual harassment. Further, it has come out that the four, that's right, four individuals who were interviewed for the report were presented as a package by the father of the girl. No one else. I believe that this man has been presumed guilty and that no amount of proving innocent will suffice for some people. I will not claim to know either way. But I do live here. I have former students in the band now and many friends who were former members. I friends on the current staff. The university, in my opinion, has provided a poorly conducted case filled with innuendo and hearsay. I believe in evidence. While I thought it was overkill to remove the former football coach, at the very least, the evidence was real and incontrovertible. That is not the case here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubaJon Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I believe that this man has been presumed guilty and that no amount of proving innocent will suffice for some people. Bingo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 I'm guessing that Apple commercial featuring the band has been taken off the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 (edited) If licensing is being withheld because of the firing that puts a whole new spin on things. For the record I have idea what the BD may or may not have done. But some of the ideas I see posted help add to harassment. I'm sure some people were OK with what was done to them but some people do not speak up or say things are OK when not because of fear of reprisal or peer pressure. Or the idea of "No one else is complaining/saying anything so it must be just me, IOW I must be wrong or something is wrong with me so I'll shut up" Sometimes the phrase "no one complained" should not be taken at face value. Yeah leaned that too over the decades of POSH training. Edited August 31, 2014 by JimF-LowBari 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 (edited) What the Dispatch failed to report is that publishers are denying licenses because the university was inappropriate in the firing of the director. This comes from open letters by people working in the field of music licensing. There is much made by some people here of the sex act simulation, the nick names, the drinking, the midnight ramp. Unfortunately, the evidence is being ignored. It's clear from members of the band that parties where the nicknames were passed out we're private parties and not part of band activities. Yes, some students behaved like fraternity members. How can the director control that? In other words, when my friend Pat wax asked what his nickname was, he responded "Pat." Here in Columbus, I have heard from many past and present members that Jon banned drinking on trips, immediately ended the Trip tic, ended the midnight ramp, confiscated and destroyed song books when students were caught with them and brought in people to talk to the band about drinking and sexual harassment. Further, it has come out that the four, that's right, four individuals who were interviewed for the report were presented as a package by the father of the girl. No one else. I believe that this man has been presumed guilty and that no amount of proving innocent will suffice for some people. I will not claim to know either way. But I do live here. I have former students in the band now and many friends who were former members. I friends on the current staff. The university, in my opinion, has provided a poorly conducted case filled with innuendo and hearsay. I believe in evidence. While I thought it was overkill to remove the former football coach, at the very least, the evidence was real and incontrovertible. That is not the case here. So the nicknames were given at private parties. Why are you conveniently ignoring the "flying 69s" and the other activities that were performed on the buses? He ended the midnight ramp? How did he do that, by being there in person and participating in it? And,he actively inquired as to what various band member's nicknames were. Why? So he could stop it? No, so he could call them by those nicknames. You live in Columbus. Ok. I have three of my children who have been in the Wisconsin band. I know what goes on. You're in denial. He's a fine band director and he grew up in the culture and he didnt see that what he was allowing was wrong. Live and learn. Now he needs to move on so the band can move on. That's the adult thing to do. Edited August 31, 2014 by HockeyDad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 (edited) We have a term for certain apologizers out this way for a well known and well, was once well-respected individual in college athletics when they try and defend his lack of action or discovered actions from a former FBI director's report. Of course, they then excoriate the findings of said report and demean the character of the former FBI director as well. We call 'em "Joebots" or "Penn State Truthers". Sounds like we got a "Jonbot" or OSU truther" here. And for the record, I detest the "Joebots/PS Truthers", this isn't just some Pennsylvania guy busting on Ohio. Edited August 31, 2014 by BigW 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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