xandandl Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Quoting my own post, Dayton '15, page 3, post #30, "I have always been confused by the Conflict of Interest dimension of judging in our activity, who taught whom back when and judges now, whose kid marches where and the parent/relative is judging them, who teaches at what school and works M-F with which teacher who is teaching this competing unit on the weekend..." For years I have been trying to get the DCI BoD to revisit this question. With the DCI managers meeting in Dayton this Friday and the BoD members of all DCI corps meeting in Chicago on Saturday, it is an apt time to raise the matter again. If he who is the consultant to the corps for entertainment, show design, and matters of show judging and protocols is also designing uniforms for SOME of the units, is this not a Conflict of Interest too? GE Visual judges (and now all GE judges since they can cross captions and sheets to make pertinent comments) and all visual judges do NOT per se judge uniforms but they are influenced by the presence of what makes the corps look(s) good as the corps enfleshes the show design. In other words, judges don't judge dot sheets or computer programs but rather human beings and what they look like that adds, subtracts, influences, and showcases the flow of the show in the movement and visuals done. Having judged at some levels and consulted on more, I know that judges do recognize the same by comments made at critiques and in conversations, not overtly on the sheets or tapes themselves. But a horrible look, whether by uniform or prop or flashflag, does inhibit the best score a corps receives. And if the same person is making the designs of the uniforms that that these corps wear and these human judges judge, isn't the ethics less pure than what the activity should be... or do we have to wait for robots to judge? Corps use tighter standards in allowing who and who does not volunteer, get cited for donations or contributions, who is allowed to tour and who is not...merely to avoid undue bad press. Why are uniforms exempt from the same high standards by enmeshing the two in one personality in selecting judging panels and what the corps wear? I am certainly not saying anyone has crossed a line. I am saying that for the good of the whole activity, there should be a Berlin Wall separating the two for the sake of propriety. Not all smoke means fire. Sometimes it is just fog. But if the fish smells, I wouldn't eat it. My beef is not with the Seattle Cascades' uniform as given in this thread nor even with the designer with whom I worked and travelled for several seasons and know and presume to be a good man. I am talking about a principle. Shouldn't the activity hold itself to the highest standards? I am perplexed at this exception. To the OP my apologies if this seems to veer too far from your thread intentions. Mods, if you want to make it a separate thread for comments and discussion, I don't object. Edited April 13, 2015 by xandandl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Meh on the design....looks nothing like a BD-clone....more like Blue Knights and Crown had a wild night of drunken debauchery and this was the result. It'll pop on the field, but looks a little too much like BK from last year, imo. If, however, the vizh scores aer good, that'll be a vindication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troon8 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I especially dislike the open wound with the large intestine hanging out. It looks like I could just keep on pulling it, and more and more ribbon (or if you prefer, intestine) would just keep coming out...maybe that's intentional for some sort of cheesy magic trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KVG_DC Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 It'd be like having a box with red cloth in it that represents your soul being ripped out or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) Yes, there is a conflict of interest present in DCI, imo. We don't see NFL referees, NBA refs, MLB umps, college sports refs, soccer refs, etc that " judge " these competitive sports events, involved in game scheduling, sporting rules and regulation promotions in their sport, uniform creation for the athletic teams, and monetary rewards given to these arbiters/ consultants that choose the team uniforms, nor involved directly in the actual promotion in the changes in the baseballs, pucks, soccer balls, basketballs, playing fields, courts, rules of competition, etc over the years. College football refs, and the " consultants " that select these football refs, don't receive money on the uniforms on one or more of the football teams involved in the on field competition. That would be deemed a clear conflict of interest, and thus is impermissable . Even Nike, Armour, " consultants " are not allowed this level of access in the sporting world, and when they cross that line, there are heavy fines and penalties that occur with both that uniform company and that player, team, or outside " consultants " with these sports leagues. But in DCI, there is no arms length distance, nor any transparancy at all, between the judges, nor the selection of judges, the judging rules, the actual judging of the sporting event itself, the instruments and uniforms used in competition in the sport, etc and these DCI insiders that actually create and profit from the sporting competitive spectacle we see on the competition field of DCI. if we are honest with ourselves, I don't see how there can be much disagreement on this as a matter of fact. We apparently like it this way, and really don't see the need for more transparancy, and less conflict of interest, and so it remains as it has been for years and years in this regard. The same dozen or so insiders doing their " consulting " to DCI within DCI in 1985-1995 are pretty much the same dozen or so people doing their inside " consulting" to DCI WITHIN DCI today. Edited April 14, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 When corps stop consulting this person for uniform changes, perhaps this "conflict" will no longer exist. Unfortunately IMO, he's far too good at what he does so more and more groups keep gravitating to him. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that he is by far the most enthusiastic and positive person associated with the activity - amongst an already great group of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) When corps stop consulting this person for uniform changes, perhaps this "conflict" will no longer exist. Unfortunately IMO, he's far too good at what he does so more and more groups keep gravitating to him. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that he is by far the most enthusiastic and positive person associated with the activity - amongst an already great group of people. Maybe,.. but of course it could just as accurately be said in observation that he is so influential within DCI , that it might be viewed as competitively and financially prudent and wise to take his uniform ( and other ) recommendations and adopt them rather than to not to take his recommendations. Also, the fact that a person might be deemed a " positive " and " enthusiastic" person does not excuse the allowance of a clear conflict of interest. If it were so, every other competitive college and pro sport league would likewise allow a lack of transparancy and the creation of a conflict of interest within their leagues with the canard that.. " well, this clear conflict of interest we have right now is really ok, as afterall, he's really a swell guy". Edited April 14, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Maybe,.. but of course it could just as accurately be said in observation that he is so influential within DCI, that it is competitively and financially prudent and wise to take his uniform ( and other ) recommendations and adopt it, rather than to not to take his recommendations. Also, The fact that a person might be deemed a " positive " and " enthusiastic" person does not excuse the allowance of a clear conflict of interest. If it were so, every other competitive college and pro sport league would likewise allow a lack of transparancy and the creation of a conflict of interest within their leagues with the canard that.. " well, this clear conflict of interest we have right now is really ok, as afterall, he's really a swell guy". Perhaps something isn't quite clear with me. Can you please explain the conflict of interest and how it has affected and influenced recent performance results? Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) Perhaps something isn't quite clear with me. Can you please explain the conflict of interest and how it has affected and influenced recent performance results? Thanks! I never said there was a direct and provable link between this clear conflict of interest and " recent performance results ". So I should not be asked to explain in further detail something a) I never said and 2) a provable link between conflicts of interests and performance results. something likely impossible to prove anyway even if there might be some semblance of real possibility to it. The fact that ALL competitive college and pro sports leagues prohibit conflicts of interests is to not to create a possible environment where speculation of a conflict of interest and performance results might be linked in the public's eye ( even if the link is inaccurate, difficult and/ or unprovable to be made as well) ). It is the appearance alone of a possible conflict of interest that make just about ALL organizations... sports or otherwise.. create rules and regulations ( with fines and penalties for violations ) whereby even a hint of a possible appearance of conflict of interest is against all these organizations by laws, rules and regulations. Are you telling us that you see no evidence of a conflict of interest present in DCI at present ? As this was my reply to a poster above ( poster.. " xandandl ") that likewise has observed a conflict of interest present within DCI. Edited April 14, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afd Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) :) Edited April 14, 2015 by afd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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