skevinp Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) It seems the Texas law has very similar wording to Indiana. I propose that DCI move the Southwest Championship from San Antonio to Denver! In a state where drugs are legal? Thousands of people die from drug related deaths every year. Any law that makes any drug legal for any purpose is endorsing that sort of thing. Anyone who disagrees with me just doesn't know how horrible drugs are. There can be no argument. My position is the equivalent of compassion so anyone who disagrees is an opponent of compassion. The Blue Knights need to issue a strong statement at the very least. Pick another state. And I will leave it to the next person to tell you what is wrong with that one using similar logic. Edited March 31, 2015 by skevinp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cf144 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Edit: (since I finally remembered where I saw it) Trying to rate struggles by comparing one to another reminds me of the "Jaws" scene where drunken Richard Dryfeus and Robert Shaw are playing top me another with bite marks. "Look at this, moray eel got me there". Right after is the "You were on the Indianapolis?" explaination which gives me the creeps more than anythng else in the movie and shows how dumb the arguing really was. That's one of the best scenes in the movie. Apparently, Robert Shaw was trashed when they shot it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 "First, the Indiana law explicitly allows any for-profit business to assert a right to “the free exercise of religion.” The federal RFRA doesn’t contain such language, and neither does any of the state RFRAs except South Carolina’s; in fact, Louisiana and Pennsylvania, explicitly exclude for-profit businesses from the protection of their RFRAs" There's one missing piece. But how does this fit with the groups that do/do not have their rights protected under state civil rights laws. For PA, as stated, a for profit business is not protected under RFRA. But homosexuals can be fired without any claim to religious belief so RFRA does not come into the picture. According to the NY Daily News I'm not confused, it's the law that makes no sense (excerpt): "In Indiana, folks who oppose gay marriage want to be shielded from lawsuits for, say, refusing to rent out a catering hall as the site of a same-sex wedding reception. That danger is extraordinarily remote because Indiana does not extend anti-discrimination protections to gays. There is no chance that the state will do so for the foreseeable future." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think you and I are in agreement. Because so many media and posters here have drawn implications in practices beyond stated legislation (here, an executive order) I raised the question because of this process of consequences. I have had posters from Canada and Holland react (a few quite negatively) in posts and PMs to what I have said in these threads talking about an American's States' legislation in an American city where championships have been held. I question the objectivity of the judgment of the two mayor's mentioned. The one poster fails to mention that the mayor of Seattle has campaigned on being openly gay. The mayor of Portland, Oregon has been called reactionary and not sensitive to others in matters such as this: https://www.popularresistance.org/portland-pitchforks-torches-protest-mayors-crackdown-on-homeless/ The third mayor publicly enacting a ban (San Francisco) has been in litigation with the Church about moral practices for several months.http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/06/11/mayor-lee-asks-sfs-archbishop-to-refrain-from-speaking-at-national-march-for-traditional-marriage-religion-lgbt-gay-rights/ AND http://freedomoutpost.com/2015/03/san-franciscos-intolerance-votes-to-urge-catholic-schools-to-be-tolerant-of-teachers-not-teaching-catholic-doctrine/ If the political figures and venues were less volitle, I think the sound of truth and people of good conscience on both sides of the debate would be heard clearer. That's why I asked about the drum corps. As I post this I see the governor of CT (known to follow the Democratic Party line in all things) has also issued an order banning State workers' travel to Indiana. ironically, his State has a Religious Freedom Act for several years. I wonder if he knows. While this might be seen as a pressuring tactic, I suggest that some will ultimately bring the matter to the Supreme Court as a challenge to a duly elected State government having jurisdiction on matters of that State. I am not a lawyer, just someone who follows how the dominos tend to fall and who lives in an area where there are several States within an hour's drive. Who cares if the posters are from other countries? They can have valid opinions too. It is, after all, a public forum. It's not like Americans don't stick their fingers into other county's issues constant. That being said, this seems to be a universal human issue and certainly not something to call out someone over... Besides, if we're going to go by that logic, then maybe only Hoosiers should be posting their opinions around here on this issue... I mean residents from Washing DC don't have voting representation in Congress, so why should their opinion matter to other "regular American cities" and "normal Americans"? The problem is that these states don't operate in a vacuum. These types of laws have an effect on people from other states and other countries as well. That's certainly something that the federal government could decide to look into under interstate commerce concerns or equal protection concerns... It's all crazy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Am I missing something? I was assuming the baker was a private businessperson. As such he/she is not providing a public service. Service to the public is not the same thing as public service. Public service could also entail service to the public though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) Who cares if the posters are from other countries? They can have valid opinions too. It is, after all, a public forum. It's not like Americans don't stick their fingers into other county's issues constant. That being said, this seems to be a universal human issue and certainly not something to call out someone over... Besides, if we're going to go by that logic, then maybe only Hoosiers should be posting their opinions around here on this issue... I mean residents from Washing DC don't have voting representation in Congress, so why should their opinion matter to other "regular American cities" and "normal Americans"? The problem is that these states don't operate in a vacuum. These types of laws have an effect on people from other states and other countries as well. That's certainly something that the federal government could decide to look into under interstate commerce concerns or equal protection concerns... It's all crazy.... In some ways I agree with you. I guess it was histrionic emotion and the comments I was PMed about the US attacking Arabs throughout the world and that the US was to blame for 9/11 because his lover was killed in the Twin Towers take down (Ground Zero, NYC.) Plus there ware that Imperial attitude that only the Throne knows what is best for The Colonies (even though they lost that battle in 1776, 1812, etc.) The ranting that Europe really didn't need the US in WWII put it over the top. (For full disclosure, my maternal uncle died after the Battle of the Bulge and is buried in the U.S. veteran's cemetery in the country where the poster lived; my uncle had not reached the age of DCI age-outs. My family came to this country due to the government in Europe taking my family's land and forbidding education solely because they were Catholic. It is a personal issue for me on many levels.) You are correct. Some of "craziness" has not always led to good conversation, dialogue, or truth-seeking in common. Some of it is like the Chinese saying, "A chicken trying to talk to a duck." Your hedge of whether non-Hoosiers can comment about Indiana law is not dissimilar to the newest facet of the argument being presented by the genuinely interested, the rabble rousers, the media, and the academics. Lawyers are now looking into whether Governors (like CT) or Mayors (like Seattle, San Francisco, and Portland in Oregon) violate US law on free trade, equality of States, and discrimination by favoring some States and boycotting others. One could go bald with all the hair splitting and finger pointing which only makes lawyers and the media rich. Edited March 31, 2015 by xandandl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) Honest answer so, no flaming: Slavery, being ripped from your family against your will, being bought and sold, living in squalor, not taught to read and write, children ripped from mothers, and then post -1865, another 100 years of two systems - sit at the back of the bus, white only waiting rooms, white only drinking fountains, banned from colleges, "separate but equal" schools, lynchings, and on and on. This is the history of African Americans. I just don't see that level of oppression in the gay rights movement. Problems? Sure, yes. But nowhere near the history, depth and breadth of the civil rights movement. That's my honest answer. Yes, those were terrible things for black Americans ( and honestly for many Africans who fell victim to wars). A bunch of those things HAVE happened to LGBT people too. Some of the discrimination has not been codified into law, but it happens. I take it you don't know of too many LGBT people who have suffered with many of the things you mentioned above. Many people have been persecuted from a very young age. They've been beaten up at school and physically abused at home. They've been called names. They've been bashed leaving establishments and put into the hospital. Many have been ganged up on in the playground, in the locker room, at the drinking fountains. Chased from school and at one time colleges. They've been afraid to be themselves... Many LGBT people have been Lynched... They've been kick out of their homes ( often by their parents) or refused to be rented to... They've been abused for assembling by the police ( Stonewall Riots). You've probably never heard of Harvey Milk either... You know the gay guy who was assassinated? I mean, totally dismiss all of that from that group... It's not a big deal to be afraid to live in one's community because you don't want to be killed or jeered. No biggie to have one's car keyed. No big deal to be physically abused by a gang of people only to have the people who are supposed to serve and protect turn a blind eye... No big deal to be raided and arrested for assembling. No big deal to deal with the witch hunts.... Totally doesn't compare... This type of law only permits that kind of stuff to continue. ...honestly there is enough historical information out there that people should know that the LGBT community suffers civil rights issue all the time, and it's pretty terrible and physical with killings and attacks. Edited March 31, 2015 by jjeffeory 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) I have had posters from Canada and Holland react (a few quite negatively) in posts and PMs to what I have said in these threads talking about an American's States' legislation in an American city where championships have been held. Stop aligning things to prove your proint. You and I have had no such dealings. All I have from you is a PM stating something about another poster which I did not reply to. I also questioned your use of "sniper-terrorism" to comment on people criticising the Indiana law in the SCV 2015 thread. I have been VERY careful what I have posted here. Very careful. Frankly, I'm shocked about some of the stretching of what has gone on, but it's not about the law in Indiana - it's about what other posters are saying. I am gay. I have MANY things to say about what is going on in Indiana and am not saying them in respect to the citizens of the U.S. The greatest democracy in the world will be able to handle this and pull forward just like they have with every other challenge they have faced. Edited March 31, 2015 by Lincoln 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) I haven't gotten that far yet corpsband. :) I am simply pointing out that black plight vs gay rights is not in the same ballpark and this constant comparisson needs to be corrected and filed away in the circular file folder. according to who? blacks? gays/ maybe a gay black individual? Is any form of discrimination ok? i DON'T THINK SO I know what you are trying to say but maybe ask those discriminated against . They may feel different. Edited March 31, 2015 by GUARDLING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Stop aligning things to prove your proint. You and I have had no such dealings. All I have from you is a PM stating something about another poster which I did not reply to. I also questioned your use of "sniper-terrorism" to comment on people criticising the Indiana law in the SCV 2015 thread. I have been VERY careful what I have posted here. Very careful. Frankly, I'm shocked about some of the stretching of what has gone on, but it's not about the law in Indiana - it's about what other posters are saying. I am gay. I have MANY things to say about what is going on in Indiana and am not saying them in respect to the citizens of the U.S. The greatest democracy in the world will be able to handle this and pull forward just like they have with every other challenge they have faced. Since when are you the only Canadian on DCP or who PMs? That's symptomatic of some of the histrionic reaction I mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts