Cadets and Innovation

[Liahona]

The Cadets need to update their uniform. The look is too restrictive for the current design trends. I'm not talking a wholesale revamp, but it definitely needs to be modernized.

Why? I love The Cadets traditional corps proper....I disagree...oozes Cadets excellence for me....

...and for those that say the cadet's show is boring....put a sock in it...lol

...I also have been following drum corps since the mid 1980's...and I ABSOLUTELY LOVE them.

[NakedEye]

How quickly we forget. When Cadets try to be "modern", i.e., electronics, narration, etc., people b#tch and complain that their shows are cheesy. Yet, when other corps do the same thing, people are foaming at the mouth, as what I noticed last night from the show thread. In case you haven't noticed, there WERE people who stated how much they actually liked Cadets show as well. If you're unwilling to consider the positive aspects of what some people have said as well as the negatives, you're falling into their trap.

I would argue that the last time Cadets really created something modern was 2005 (with 2006 being a messier, less successful attempt). The first version really was a different animal at the time, and the use of electronics, while initially controversial, really did work. The voiceover and sound effects were effective and the drumspeak thing brought the house down. A lot of howling skeptics were won over. After 2006 got out of control, unfortunately what, in my opinion, occurred over the next few years is that they didn't fully commit to the fresh approach. 2007 and 2008 were essentially "classic" Cadets shows with narration spliced into them. The overall structure, tone and pacing was otherwise very similar to a system they had been perfecting for some time. The result was the voice felt intrusive, rather then natural, and people (rightly) didn't care for it.

2011 was a pretty standard show, but had the extremely effective gimmick of the split uniform/split corps.

Remove the elements made possible by rules changes (sound effects, french horns, etc) , and 2012-2015 are essentially the same kind of shows they were doing in the late '90's. In contrast, what the Blue Devils do today is very, very different than what they were doing in '97. Their approach to staging and flow of show construction is nothing like what they used to do, and I think that is why it has worked so well. They didn't try a major change in half steps. They really went in a new direction and fully committed to it. There have been bumps along the way, but they stuck to it and the results the past few years have been spectacular.

Likewise, the Bluecoats are now absolutely on the same path. It started with more use of electronics, but has now really exploded the last two years because of what their program coordinator said in the Preview broadcast: they don't try to shove electronics into music that is not originally created with them. Instead, they seek out music where the effects are already an integral part. The result is an enhanced product that has a natural cohesiveness. But to make it really soar, they had to 100% commit, and you see the result of that this year. It was really, really risky to attempt something with speakers all over the field, etc., but man has it paid off.

Crown had a lot of red herrings with the body movement. Many times it seemed extraneous to the rest of the show. But it finally worked in 2013, and it is REALLY working this year, with an expansion of the well-worn leg stuff to moments where they all do "heavy walking" and other full-body expressions which really contribute to the despair of their show theme.

The Cadets, perhaps more strongly than other corps, really have both the blessing and the burden of an extremely strong legacy. That can be great thing, but it also carries the weight of expectation, which seems to have resulted in a very conservative approach of late. People say they want "Classic Cadets," so that is what they are trying to do. What is forgotten is these "classic" shows which are so revered, were anything but when they were new. They were the cutting edge, new ideas which others then had to follow. 1984, 1987, 1993 - those were all radical for different reasons.

I have no idea what will happen this season, as their members and instruction are absolutely first-rate. What they have been given to do will most assuredly be performed to the highest level, but is hard to not notice the contrast between their approach and BD's staging, Crown's (finally effective) body movement and Bluecoats etherial electronics. At the end of the day, when everyone in the top tier performs at superhuman levels, who gets the nod? Something time-proven or something groundbreaking? I don't want them to bomb in the standings, but at the same time wonder if a 5-6th place finish (unlikely) might be the only thing that really forces a wholesale examination of the system, and frees them to throw out the book and take the risk of 100% attempting a new one.

[BRASSO]

As someone who was drawn to march in the Cadets in the early 90s because their show designs were cutting edge, and pushing the boundries of the activity, it is hard to say this, but as I watched the live stream last night I really felt like they have been left behind in some key areas of the activity.

Like it or not, body movement and staging are the current trend in the activity. ...

" Staging " ? If anyone thinks the Cadets did not utilize " Staging " in their show last season, then I'm really at a loss for proper words for a reply. I saw the biggest " stage " out on the field for the Cadets last season than I have seen in years. That " staging " obliterated fans in the first few rows of shows on the 50 yard line from seeing much more than a Lecturer up on the stage for much of the show walking back and forth and providing those fans a commentary on the US Presidents. That show design really did not work for the Cadets placement wise last season. This year, the Cadets learned that lesson re. too much " staging " and went in a new direction altogether that no longer relies on big props, big staging, big talkers, big siderline machines cranking out synthetic, man made noise. This Cadets show is refreshing ( to me, and others ) because it as eschewed the all to prevalent gimmicky stuff being utilized now, and thus 2015 Cadets show is mostly performer driven...and in my view, thats a GOOD thing. Thats a new change some of us are liking. I like what other Corps are doing too. But the Cadets are right in the middle of a title hunt, the fans for the most part like this year's Cadets show, and so don't the judges. So I don't really know what else to tell you.

Edited July 3, 2015 by BRASSO

[Cleveland1]

1st cadets won only a few years ago and continually are a contender. hmmmm seems pretty successful to me. How many would kill to be that bad...lol

But think of it this way. In the last 14 seasons the Cadets have won 2 championships.

Their longest championship draught was between their 2005 and 2011 championships, and if this show doesnt win this year then it will match their second longest draught between 2000 and 2005 championships.

So i can understand alums and fans discussing how to change things to bring back the 80s and 90s success. Even though the cadets are competitive in most seasons.

[Cleveland1]

" Staging " ? If anyone thinks the Cadets did not utilize " Staging " in their show last season, then I'm really at a loss for proper words for a reply. I saw the biggest " stage " out on the field for the Cadets last season than I have seen in years. That " staging " obliterated fans in the first few rows of shows on the 50 yard line from seeing much more than a Lecturer up on the stage for much of the show walking back and forth and providing those fans a commentary on the US Presidents. That show design really did not work for the Cadets placement wise last season. This year, the Cadets learned that lesson re. too much " staging " and went in a new direction altogether that no longer relies on big props, big staging, big siderline mavchines cranking out synthetic, man made noise. This Cadets show is refreshing ( to me, and others ) because it as eschewed the all to prevalent gimmicky being utilized now, and is mostly performer driven. Thats a new change some of us are liking.

Just because there was a stage doesn't mean that they staged well. Staging is how the designers utilize the entire field as a stage, how the members interact with one another, and how they interact with props.

[Wadep66]

I would argue that the last time Cadets really created something modern was 2005 (with 2006 being a messier, less successful attempt). The first version really was a different animal at the time, and the use of electronics, while initially controversial, really did work. The voiceover and sound effects were effective and the drumspeak thing brought the house down. A lot of howling skeptics were won over. After 2006 got out of control, unfortunately what, in my opinion, occurred over the next few years is that they didn't fully commit to the fresh approach. 2007 and 2008 were essentially "classic" Cadets shows with narration spliced into them. The overall structure, tone and pacing was otherwise very similar to a system they had been perfecting for some time. The result was the voice felt intrusive, rather then natural, and people (rightly) didn't care for it.

2011 was a pretty standard show, but had the extremely effective gimmick of the split uniform/split corps.

Remove the elements made possible by rules changes (sound effects, french horns, etc) , and 2012-2015 are essentially the same kind of shows they were doing in the late '90's. In contrast, what the Blue Devils do today is very, very different than what they were doing in '97. Their approach to staging and flow of show construction is nothing like what they used to do, and I think that is why it has worked so well. They didn't try a major change in half steps. They really went in a new direction and fully committed to it. There have been bumps along the way, but they stuck to it and the results the past few years have been spectacular.

Likewise, the Bluecoats are now absolutely on the same path. It started with more use of electronics, but has now really exploded the last two years because of what their program coordinator said in the Preview broadcast: they don't try to shove electronics into music that is not originally created with them. Instead, they seek out music where the effects are already an integral part. The result is an enhanced product that has a natural cohesiveness. But to make it really soar, they had to 100% commit, and you see the result of that this year. It was really, really risky to attempt something with speakers all over the field, etc., but man has it paid off.

Crown had a lot of red herrings with the body movement. Many times it seemed extraneous to the rest of the show. But it finally worked in 2013, and it is REALLY working this year, with an expansion of the well-worn leg stuff to moments where they all do "heavy walking" and other full-body expressions which really contribute to the despair of their show theme.

The Cadets, perhaps more strongly than other corps, really have both the blessing and the burden of an extremely strong legacy. That can be great thing, but it also carries the weight of expectation, which seems to have resulted in a very conservative approach of late. People say they want "Classic Cadets," so that is what they are trying to do. What is forgotten is these "classic" shows which are so revered, were anything but when they were new. They were the cutting edge, new ideas which others then had to follow. 1984, 1987, 1993 - those were all radical for different reasons.

I have no idea what will happen this season, as their members and instruction are absolutely first-rate. What they have been given to do will most assuredly be performed to the highest level, but is hard to not notice the contrast between their approach and BD's staging, Crown's (finally effective) body movement and Bluecoats etherial electronics. At the end of the day, when everyone in the top tier performs at superhuman levels, who gets the nod? Something time-proven or something groundbreaking? I don't want them to bomb in the standings, but at the same time wonder if a 5-6th place finish (unlikely) might be the only thing that really forces a wholesale examination of the system, and frees them to throw out the book and take the risk of 100% attempting a new one.

Very well thought out and well written. Thanks for that!

I would love to see some alterations to the uniform to better fit the modern style. One can look at the Cavaliers and see the Cavaliers of yesteryear. However, it allows for so much more body movement and athleticism without it looking robotic, which can sometimes happen with the Cadets body movement as has been mentioned.

I don't think I'm going to get to see the Cadets live this year and that is disappointing. I'm hopeful that they can pull off another 2011!

[31rabbit]

Cadets don't get enough credit for advancing the concept of a 'show theme.'

show reps pre-1982 were songs that were maybe stylistically the same flavor, but mostly there were just 'a series of great tunes to lay out.' looking at the shows from the late 70's, it's almost bizarre. open with a theme from Carmen, move onto the Star Trek theme...

Phantom tried 3 times playing 'music from Spartacus,' but it wasn't until after the cadets won in 83 with their Bernstein's Mass show that the idea of 'single source repertoires' took off. strange to think that somebody has to 'invent' the concept of laying out a show that way.

Brasso said something much earlier in this post that aligns with my concern in re the activity changing. 'new' is fine and good, and I get that there are going to be shows that utilize things that I don't like. What I am afraid of is any environment which diminishes the possible paths to competitive relevancy. any attitude that limits the ways things can be done also limits the product.

Cadets have gone from having a middle of the pack drumline to regularly having one of the best batteries, and to me that is always going to be much more important than if their uniforms are 'out of date.'

[BRASSO]

What kind of argument is that??? Your premise is that just because the corps name is "the Cadets" that their uni should stay the same. Which makes absolutely no sense. Phantom Regiment is a militaristic corps as well. Their uniforms are hardly militaristic.

Your point about diversity of uniforms are fair. I don't think anyone is suggesting an overhaul of Cadets' uniforms, just a modernization of them.

Oh sure, why not go over to the SCV Corps thread and ask the alums and fans there if SCV should dump their iconic headgear and maybe go with a Crown headgear.. or a Bluecoats headgear... or a Phantom headgear.

Maybe Phantom should wear Boston's headgear..... and Madison should wear Cavs headgear.... and.... oh... never mind, its already so silly to discuss this.

The Cadets iconic, unchanged uniform, thru 80 years of continuous identity, has been once of its best attributes for them. My guess, those few naysayers that want the Cadets to change their style of uniform do not have the best interests of this Corps in their request. And the best part of this for those of us that like their 80 year old, unchanged uniform, that it probably won't change with the shifting winds. Let those Corps that decide to change their uniform styles every year or two continue to do so. Thats fine too. By and large, the ones that do this, tend to eventually fall in placement, and then many disappear from the Drum Corps activity altogether The Cadets style of uniform has served them perfectly well over the last 80 some odd years... and it is doing so once again this season.

Edited July 3, 2015 by BRASSO

[Fred Windish]

I was guilty last night in posting there's not enough 'It factor' to the production. Can't express exactly what 'it' is, but let me add this. The Cadets have superior talent and technique (as always) but their movement and staging seemed repetitive. As in something I've seen before. Surely, there will be additions made. But, being supremely talented and done to perfection has become expected at the highest level, and 4-5 competitors are now showing that same brilliance every time out. To make this all the more challenging is my belief Cadets don't make a very good 'gimmick' corps. Probably need a never-seen-before drill move. Are there any of these left?

[brichtimp]

" Staging " ? If anyone thinks the Cadets did not utilize " Staging " in their show last season, then I'm really at a loss for proper words for a reply. I saw the biggest " stage " out on the field for the Cadets last season than I have seen in years. That " staging " obliterated fans in the first few rows of shows on the 50 yard line from seeing much more than a Lecturer up on the stage for much of the show walking back and forth and providing those fans a commentary on the US Presidents. That show design really did not work for the Cadets placement wise last season. This year, the Cadets learned that lesson re. too much " staging " and went in a new direction altogether that no longer relies on big props, big staging, big talkers, big siderline machines cranking out synthetic, man made noise. This Cadets show is refreshing ( to me, and others ) because it as eschewed the all to prevalent gimmicky stuff being utilized now, and thus 2015 Cadets show is mostly performer driven...and in my view, thats a GOOD thing. Thats a new change some of us are liking. I like what other Corps are doing too. But the Cadets are right in the middle of a title hunt, the fans for the most part like this year's Cadets show, and so don't the judges. So I don't really know what else to tell you.

As a fan of the Cadets since the early 80s, and my son aged out on the snare line in 2014, I just want to see the Cadets select great music (that would stand on its own without any drill), and add clean integrated marching to sell the show's theme. In 2014, I think the PPL performance in early July epitomized what I wanted to see...minimal cheese and great playing/drill execution. I think the 2015 show has the potential to take this to another level....although Shosty and Copland exist in different musical universes. With all of the shots fired at the 2014 show, it is important to remember that that awesome Bluecoats show was never able to score higher until Finals night...a tribute to the sheer quality of playing and marching by Cadets.