Tour of Champions Chester- Official Thread 7/30

[N.E. Brigand]

Boston was warned both times, and the T&P judge used his discretion each time and did not assess the penalty. They knew going in a penalty was possible.

Ah! That's news I hadn't heard before. I saw Boston use the powder at Centerville and thought to myself, "I thought that sort of thing was against the rules. But they weren't penalized, so I guess not." Given this information, I'm surprised they didn't continue to use the powder in Semifinals and Finals.

[BassFanMom]

I saw three members of Crown falling or stumbling while marching and some uncharacteristic drops from the color guard. Bluecoats had a member almost fall as well and one of the Cadets stumbled. I saw more things like that stick out to me at this show than any other I can remember.

I wasn't there but heard that it was a grass field...maybe that had something to do with it?

[N.E. Brigand]

Then what's the point? Playing while doing drill is not hard, even when it's high velocity. Today's performers are so fit and so well-trained from a stamina standpoint that high-velocity drill on its own is simply another form of smoke-and-mirrors. It's only when you add other elements that it becomes demanding on its own (pass-throughs, blind and double-blind pass throughs, expansion/contraction/rotation of geometric forms) and truly reach the simultaneous responsibility criteria as defined on the sheets. That's why there's been a bit of a decline in the overuse of high speed drill over the last decade or so. Corps like the Blue Devils have transformed what you can do with the stage, and Carolina Crown has redefined what the body is capable of with choreography (and both those corps have used elements of each other's skills to combine the two).

Well, he wasn't even timing "high velocity" drill at all, although he mentioned it in passing. His focus was entirely on simultaneous marching and playing. I think there's some value in at least setting that baseline, and I'm grateful to mj84 for going to the effort of trying to do so, allowing that I agree with you that marching is just one kind of movement, all of which needs to be counted in some way in this kind of exercise. It does get tricky: ought marking time to count as much as marching, for instance? And that one-legged pose that Bluecoats use this year: if they're playing while they hold that position, is that half as difficult, just as difficult, or even more difficult than playing while marching eight to five?

Why do I think there's value in examining this? I'll explain with a question: Would you agree that a corps that never moved while playing ought to get less credit than a corps that often moved while playing?

If you don't, then I think we simply have different ideas about what drum corps should be. I think that playing while moving is one of the essential characteristics of drum corps. If your brass is not doing that at all, then you're not a drum corps.

But if you agree, then the next step becomes a matter of determining how much is enough--and how much is too much. Is a corps that plays while moving for just one minute deserving of less credit than a corps that plays while moving for five minutes? I'd guess yes. But does a corps that plays while moving for nine minutes deserve more credit than the corps that plays while moving for five minutes? Maybe not. JWillis has lately reminded us that the standstill feature used to be a noble tradition in this activity. Why should it not be again? Are sixteenth notes inherently better than half notes? Very few composers would say that. Aren't rests, isn't silence, a valuable part of music? Shouldn't stillness likewise be a valuable part of drum corps? The right pause, the right stasis can generate its own important effect. (It's ironic, though, that a move toward less motion, i.e. a return to the past, seems to be the result of "advances" in the activity.)

So I don't think the judges on the spot should be timing simultaneous demand with a stopwatch any more than they should be tabulating the number of musical keys each corps plays in. But I do think they should have some minimum expectations of what drum corps is, which would allow that, while the New York Philharmonic generates more effect than the Cadets, it fails to satisfy those drum corps expectations. A similar feeling of dissatisfaction is what drives some fans to such hyperbole (that you chided earlier in this thread) as claiming that some drum corps "never" move while playing. What they mean is: "I feel that corps ought to move while playing, and it feels like Blue Devils and Bluecoats simultaneously move and play less than some other corps", and that's why it's useful to have some data to confirm those guesses. (Even if better data is needed.)

Once they have the information, then fans can decide how they feel about it. It may be that a majority of the audience is perfectly happy with less simultaneous playing and moving, or it may be that a majority wants more. If Cesario finds that the fans are dissatisfied, maybe the sheets get tweaked again.

Two final thoughts. First, DCI could do a better job explaining what the judges expect in this regard, so that fans are less confused. Second, George Hopkins hinted last week that judges aren't giving Cadets enough credit for difficulty. Why doesn't he propose a rule change that would make it so? Or does he think the sheets as currently written ought to be rewarding his corps more than they are?

[pudding]

Just want to add two things: First, marching is not the only physical demand that can affect playing. For example, in Bluecoats' Shaker Loops, right before their double tongue feature, there is a lot of body movement that affects the upper core, which has a significant effect on playing. This is not to say that all body has a huge impact; a lot of Crown's intricate footwork, while impressive, does not impact the mechanics of playing quite as much.

Secondly, no matter how good your sound system is, it can only play back what was captured on mic. The Bluecoats this year have so much antiphonal writing that it's impossible to tell unless you're in the stadium. For example, the split tuba feature? Yeah, it's obviously a split part. However, you can't tell from videos that they hocket almost every single note, which is far more impressive and far more difficult than simply trading phrases.

[chaddyt]

I worked hard to make sure my "standard" was cut-and-dry.. ran the timer when the brass was playing AND marching.. (when the brass that WAS playing was also marching).. not sure how that's flawed. but hey you're entitled to your opinion corpsband :) I was just tryin to put up info for the "park and blow" folks out there.

Is this only when the entire horn line is playing/marching? Are you counting movement when maybe only the low brass is playing? Movement and playing doesn't always stretch over the entire hornline, especially in BDs case.

[N.E. Brigand]

Just want to add two things: First, marching is not the only physical demand that can affect playing. For example, in Bluecoats' "Shaker Loops", right before their double tongue feature, there is a lot of body movement that affects the upper core, which has a significant effect on playing.

That is exactly why I mentioned Bluecoats in my long-winded response.

[N.E. Brigand]

Is this only when the entire horn line is playing/marching? Are you counting movement when maybe only the low brass is playing? Movement and playing doesn't always stretch over the entire hornline, especially in BDs case.

In a subsequent post, he explains that his timing counts when the brass that is playing is also moving. So if only the tubas are playing, but they're not moving, it doesn't count for his purposes. Which is the right approach to this exercise, in my view, if--as per others' comments, insufficient to fully establish even a baseline of demand.

[Sideways]

Two final thoughts. First, DCI could do a better job explaining what the judges expect in this regard, so that fans are less confused. Second, George Hopkins hinted last week that judges aren't giving Cadets enough credit for difficulty. Why doesn't he propose a rule change that would make it so? Or does he think the sheets as currently written ought to be rewarding his corps more than they are?

Demand will carry you through the first couple weeks of the season when everyone is rough on execution. When late July and August roll around you better be clean, no mater what your demand is, if you want those top numbers. The cleaner you are the more individual mistakes stand out...Cadets program is very much on this fine edge.

They march a clean how and watch those performance numbers pop. GE may be close to being maxed out on the visual element due to limitations in programming/staging with the guard. Not much that can be done to fix that at this point in the game, just keep cleaning for every tenth in performance.

[4HNSAB]

I confirmed with my daughter who plays the horn solo that the only time the amplification kicks in is when she's performing the solo.

The Cadets:

They play really well. The play a lot. Theme? Who cares? The music that they're playing is fantastic, and they're playing it fantastically.

In terms of theme: I think that "The Power of Ten" has about as much relevance to this show as "Game On" has to the Cavaliers'. Which is to say, not much. They throw in some counting, some numbers, and some X's, but that's not really the point. The point of this show is to say, "We came here to play, we came here to move, and by golly that's what we're going to do."

The brass is very good, not quite on par with Crown or BD but definitely up there, maybe a smidge better than Bloo. Their side to side brass timing, while not quite as demanding as Bloo, is impeccable. In particular, their horn feature is outstanding, though I was a bit disappointed to see that it was amplified; it would be a great effect either way, but the amplification reveal (when the soloist was revealed to have been micd) was a little bit of a disappointment.

The battery is great, some ticks here and there but nothing major. One more week of cleaning will fix all of those problems. The front ensemble is active, though I there's a bit too much cymbal for my tastes (not unusual for Cadets shows). I appreciate the tambourine and crash cymbal parts, very appropriate and they give the players a chance to display no pitched percussion skills.

Edited July 31, 2015 by 4HNSAB

[yogitom]

I confirmed with my daughter who plays the horn solo that the only time the amplification kicks in is when she's performing the solo.

Allison Pryor is your daughter? You have one talented young lady there my man.