BigW Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 When you mention that Jim- what's the situation in Canada? There are no instrumental music programs in Canadian schools like we have them here. There are British style brass bands in some towns- last I knew, Weston, ONT had a fantastic one. Burlington ONT last I knew had a pretty large youth band that will make appearances and they're pretty good, too. But there's no school support. To do anything, they really need to have the support mechanism underneath it like he explains. This issue is one of the big ones if not the big one that eventually torpedoed the Canadian corps. If you want something there, you have to build the entire structure underneath it assuming the student had no previous experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 When you mention that Jim- what's the situation in Canada? There are no instrumental music programs in Canadian schools like we have them here. There are British style brass bands in some towns- last I knew, Weston, ONT had a fantastic one. Burlington ONT last I knew had a pretty large youth band that will make appearances and they're pretty good, too. But there's no school support. To do anything, they really need to have the support mechanism underneath it like he explains. This issue is one of the big ones if not the big one that eventually torpedoed the Canadian corps. If you want something there, you have to build the entire structure underneath it assuming the student had no previous experience. That was my understanding too, which was a real eye opener when I first heard about it here or on RAMD.... So when we talk about the HS MB scene we just have to remember that stops at the border..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Exactly! I do know the Indoor percussion and color guard scenes are active in Ontario and Quebec, just not band. This also explains some of the other phenomenon in the past with the Canadian corps, especially with some of their dynamite percussion batteries in the past. They were on equal footing in terms of starting and training people in percussion for a long time, just not in brass, where you got people like you and me who had started honking away in 4th or 5th grade in a very organized school setting, so that by the time we were even 13 or 14 (kids started in many DCA and DCI corps at that age BITD for those who don't know) we had a few years of playing under our belts and didn't have to be taught from ground zero. To me it was always amazing how Corps like the Optimists, Ventures, Grennies, Offensive Lions, L'Insolite, and Les Metro were able to present some pretty stiff horn lines with that relative obstacle facing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 When you mention that Jim- what's the situation in Canada? There are no instrumental music programs in Canadian schools like we have them here. There are British style brass bands in some towns- last I knew, Weston, ONT had a fantastic one. Burlington ONT last I knew had a pretty large youth band that will make appearances and they're pretty good, too. But there's no school support. To do anything, they really need to have the support mechanism underneath it like he explains. This issue is one of the big ones if not the big one that eventually torpedoed the Canadian corps. If you want something there, you have to build the entire structure underneath it assuming the student had no previous experience. When I was teaching music back in the 70's, we did an exchange with a HS Band from the Toronto area...they had band and even jazz band, just not marching band, and in that district band instrumental lessons started in 9th grade, not elementary school. Doing some Googling it appears that there are still many instrumental programs, but probably even at a greater risk of cuts than here. Here is one page from a HS website...no idea if they are just the most amazing school in Canada or not... Daily Schedule Period 1; Allegro Band - Mr. Dehnel Period 2; Symphonic Band - Mr. Dehnel Period 3; Concert Band - Mr. Moriarty Period 5; Varsity Band - Mr. Moriarty Extra-Curricular Ensembles and Rehearsal Schedules Jazz Ensemble I - Mr. Moriarty: Mondays 7-9 pm, Thursdays 7-8 am. Jazz Ensemble II - Mr. Moriarty: Tuesdays and Fridays 7-8 am. Jazz Ensemble III - Student Director Jamie Gorski: Tuesdays 7-8 am. Percussion Ensemble - Mr. Churchich: Wednesdays 7-8 am. Wind Ensemble - Mr. Dehnel: Mondays and Wednesdays 7-8 am. Flute Choir - Mr. Dehnel: TBD 7-8 am. Clarinet Choir - Mr. Dehnel: TBD 7-8 am. Brass Quintet - Student Led: Tuesdays 7-8 am. Woodwind Quintet - Student Led: Thursdays 7-8 am. Concert Dates We have an exciting concert season planned! Please note that all RAHS concerts start at 7:30 pm. Musicians will report to the band room at 6:45 to warm up. ALLEGRO BAND November 19, 2015 February 25, 2016 May 17, 2016 SYMPHONIC BAND November 12, 2015 February 1, 2016 (SEC Fest - During the day) February 29, 2016 TOUR: March 30 - April 3, 2016 April 7 and 8, 2016 (Pops) May 25, 2016 CONCERT BAND November 17, 2015 February 29, 2016 May 24, 2016 June 3, 2016 (Commencement) VARSITY BAND November 16, 2015 February 25, 2016 May 19, 2016 June 3, 2016 (Commencement) JAZZ BANDS December 8, 2015 January 23, 2016 (McNally Smith Winter Jazz Blast - Jazz I & II, Combo I - all day) February 5, 2016 (MSHSL Region 4AA Jazz Contest - all day) February 8, 2016 Jazz II only: April 7, 2016 (Pops) Jazz I only: April 8, 2016 (Pops) April 23, 2016 (UW Eau Claire Festival - Jazz I & II, Combo I - all day) May 20, 2016 CHAMBER ENSEMBLES December 9, 2015 (Chamber Winds, Strings, and Percussion) February 9, 2016 (Chamber Winds and Percussion) Percussion Ensemble only: May 18, 2016 Wind Ensemble only: May 17, 2016 Senior Honors Recital: June 1, 2016 (by invitation) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlisko Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 W ... In my tenure with Sky's Alumni Corps (and I was there from the get go), there have been at least three attempts to "formalize" an Alumni Circuit and/or introduce competition in various ways ... ALL have been turned down by the Corps themselves throughout the years (98-current) with an emphatic NO ... the Alumni scene is just not about competition ... it is about pride and putting on a good show ... but it's NOT about competition ... and each and every corps approached told the promoters it would not work ... the first attempt was in 99 ... then another in 2004 ... and more recently around 2012ish ... you could say this ... and you could say that ... but in the end, through the years, there has been no interest from the Alumni Corps to once again compete as a Full Corps ... I&E and Mini-Corps and ensembles pop up now and then and the people who perform love it ... :-) Dan, there would be no issue at all with current alumni groups competing for score or not. That's part of the beauty of this. There even could be new corps formed under this aegis that are not affiliated with any old-time corps that just have older members that could put on a very presentable program under the loose guidelines I threw out there. Either path to the creation of those organizations would be fine. I've had a concern myself about re-inventing the wheel with this. That could mean that things already in place could be expanded on or utilized better to provide better solutions for everyone. I see the main goal as providing an appropriate venue to compete for those who can't run full tilt anymore for 10 minutes but want that challenge. If that can be done using existing structures, it should be done. It certainly would help get rid of that concern of "It's getting younger!!!" The one thing I would not want to do is alter the existing Open/A guidelines and thrust to accommodate this idea. I think that would be absolutely terrible. I just want to really make sure people understand that I think all of that is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 W ... In my tenure with Sky's Alumni Corps (and I was there from the get go), there have been at least three attempts to "formalize" an Alumni Circuit and/or introduce competition in various ways ... ALL have been turned down by the Corps themselves throughout the years (98-current) with an emphatic NO ... the Alumni scene is just not about competition ... it is about pride and putting on a good show ... but it's NOT about competition ... and each and every corps approached told the promoters it would not work ... the first attempt was in 99 ... then another in 2004 ... and more recently around 2012ish ... you could say this ... and you could say that ... but in the end, through the years, there has been no interest from the Alumni Corps to once again compete as a Full Corps ... I&E and Mini-Corps and ensembles pop up now and then and the people who perform love it ... :-) That's all a good thing too! But are there people who do want to compete and could able to form some type of 35+ member "master's" corps using the loose guideline I laid out? I don't know. It doesn't have to be an alumni corps. It could be, but does not have to be. Again, this is the beauty of the proposal. I did this in response to the comments that the DCA corps are "getting younger". Many folks who would like to stay on can't physically do it. Some are lucky and end up on staff, as Drum Majors, or as sideline players. Others are out of the loop. I offer it as a solution to get the "older" people back in the mix competitively in some fashion. And by "older"... I did say Hop may indirectly have the answer on the age cutoff- 25 and older might be the "older" people we might be looking at for the shows to be designed for. Food for thought here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I can tell you - there's not a whole lot of HS band in Canada. But I thought we wanted to grow Drum Corps in both countries? What's wrong with more drum corps, folks? People complain about only 3 corps competing at a DCA show - what's wrong with having three more there in a youth division? What's wrong with getting kids *and their families* into the DCA brand at an early age? What's wrong with having kids actually exposed to the DCA competitive corps when they are young so they can gain a respect for them, and grow a desire to be part of it? If the HS band scene is the answer to all our questions - why are we even having this discussion? Clearly, that model isn't working. So instead of attacking status quo when it comes to instrumentation, let's tear down the status quo with regard to assumptions like "the high school bands are all we need for kids". For all that Lee's questions are unworkable, he made you think outside the box. Well - let's do some more of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) I can tell you - there's not a whole lot of HS band in Canada. But I thought we wanted to grow Drum Corps in both countries? What's wrong with more drum corps, folks? People complain about only 3 corps competing at a DCA show - what's wrong with having three more there in a youth division? What's wrong with getting kids *and their families* into the DCA brand at an early age? What's wrong with having kids actually exposed to the DCA competitive corps when they are young so they can gain a respect for them, and grow a desire to be part of it? If the HS band scene is the answer to all our questions - why are we even having this discussion? Clearly, that model isn't working. So instead of attacking status quo when it comes to instrumentation, let's tear down the status quo with regard to assumptions like "the high school bands are all we need for kids". For all that Lee's questions are unworkable, he made you think outside the box. Well - let's do some more of that. Personally i will debate most of what Lee has to say BUT that aside ( trolling IMO ) there is nothing wrong with growing the activity, nothing at all. The DCA model may not be the avenue for many reasons for such young corps imo. DCI may be more suited for even younger corps BUT you can see how supported DCI Open Class is ( its not) HS band kids IS the reason many corps are still around today and HS bands the quality they are, are in part this way because of drum corps people who a few decades ago became a very important part of that scene. People tend to totally forget the actual reasons drum corps in all arenas have declined over the years. Look in your area, it never had the amount the US had BUT there were many, where are they now and why. Im very much for always blasting the status quo BUT I have also seen all the good hearted people who start things in the activity and because of a good heart ended up doing more damage. I think some small division of new to the activity is fine, where this happens I'm not sure(and how ) but DCA I'm totally not that sure. PS: on a side note, I teach young people year round and it is not close to what we were as young people, it's expensive to have a program, kids have way more choices than we did back in the day which causes it's own challenges, kids excel at a much faster rate and are demanding of their program for sure. Support is not close to what it was years ago either for this and many other activities . I have a reputation of taking many kids into some programs who otherwise would never get a shot and I make them finalists and in many cases medalists . I pride myself on that BUT have also seen the worst of the activity and the difficulty of it. dream? Sure I did that in the past also BUT this activity needs realists today. it's to costly not to be. Edited September 23, 2015 by GUARDLING 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) When I was teaching music back in the 70's, we did an exchange with a HS Band from the Toronto area...they had band and even jazz band, just not marching band, and in that district band instrumental lessons started in 9th grade, not elementary school. Doing some Googling it appears that there are still many instrumental programs, but probably even at a greater risk of cuts than here. Here is one page from a HS website...no idea if they are just the most amazing school in Canada or not... Daily Schedule Period 1; Allegro Band - Mr. Dehnel Period 2; Symphonic Band - Mr. Dehnel Period 3; Concert Band - Mr. Moriarty Period 5; Varsity Band - Mr. Moriarty Extra-Curricular Ensembles and Rehearsal Schedules Jazz Ensemble I - Mr. Moriarty: Mondays 7-9 pm, Thursdays 7-8 am. Jazz Ensemble II - Mr. Moriarty: Tuesdays and Fridays 7-8 am. Jazz Ensemble III - Student Director Jamie Gorski: Tuesdays 7-8 am. Percussion Ensemble - Mr. Churchich: Wednesdays 7-8 am. Wind Ensemble - Mr. Dehnel: Mondays and Wednesdays 7-8 am. Flute Choir - Mr. Dehnel: TBD 7-8 am. Clarinet Choir - Mr. Dehnel: TBD 7-8 am. Brass Quintet - Student Led: Tuesdays 7-8 am. Woodwind Quintet - Student Led: Thursdays 7-8 am. Concert Dates We have an exciting concert season planned! Please note that all RAHS concerts start at 7:30 pm. Musicians will report to the band room at 6:45 to warm up. ALLEGRO BAND November 19, 2015 February 25, 2016 May 17, 2016 SYMPHONIC BAND November 12, 2015 February 1, 2016 (SEC Fest - During the day) February 29, 2016 TOUR: March 30 - April 3, 2016 April 7 and 8, 2016 (Pops) May 25, 2016 CONCERT BAND November 17, 2015 February 29, 2016 May 24, 2016 June 3, 2016 (Commencement) VARSITY BAND November 16, 2015 February 25, 2016 May 19, 2016 June 3, 2016 (Commencement) JAZZ BANDS December 8, 2015 January 23, 2016 (McNally Smith Winter Jazz Blast - Jazz I & II, Combo I - all day) February 5, 2016 (MSHSL Region 4AA Jazz Contest - all day) February 8, 2016 Jazz II only: April 7, 2016 (Pops) Jazz I only: April 8, 2016 (Pops) April 23, 2016 (UW Eau Claire Festival - Jazz I & II, Combo I - all day) May 20, 2016 CHAMBER ENSEMBLES December 9, 2015 (Chamber Winds, Strings, and Percussion) February 9, 2016 (Chamber Winds and Percussion) Percussion Ensemble only: May 18, 2016 Wind Ensemble only: May 17, 2016 Senior Honors Recital: June 1, 2016 (by invitation) Wow... forget about only Canada. This could be the most amazing school anywhere!!! Edited September 23, 2015 by Fran Haring 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran Haring Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 not all alumni corps move And some of the ones who do are moving less than in years past. Just the nature of the beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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