Rules Congress 2016

[Pete Freedman]

I'm not sure what you mean here about music "receiving the opposite approach." I think musicians in all sections are FAR better as a whole than they were 40 years ago. The brass ensembles are MUCH better in tune, are playing far more difficult technical stuff well, etc. Percussionists are playing higher demand stuff more musically than ever before, and front ensemble percussionists are learning amazing technique and skill sets. I aged-out in 1998, and drum corps are achieving FAR more musically than they were even 15ish years ago, let alone 40!

Maybe it's because drum corps are arranging existing music, but actually 'composing' the visual. Thus visual can easily get as intense as judges and designers want it to, but arrangers have to find and tweak music to get it to fit, so to speak. However, they must be succeeding at that, though, because as you say, music is insanely technical today. It was hard before, it's over the top today.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Pete Freedman

[C.Holland]

Here's BD 2011. Looks like the drummer is using a small sound board, but the clip is too short to see if he actually does anything. However, as soon as we cut away from this a high pitched sound effect kicks in and then an audio clip of singing. So I think it can be done.

that's just a pit player playing an electronic keyboard. they could be triggering a myriad of sounds that it is connected to. And operating a sound console for dci is complex, but its not anything that a college level tech can't handle. And they should handle it, as it's part of the ensemble scoring.

[Pete Freedman]

that's just a pit player playing an electronic keyboard. they could be triggering a myriad of sounds that it is connected to. And operating a sound console for dci is complex, but its not anything that a college level tech can't handle. And they should handle it, as it's part of the ensemble scoring.

Ok, but the only electronic sound that happens there is the sound effects I mentioned, and the woman in front who is producing all the keyboard sounds. so if it's a keyboard it's a keyboard that is playing sound effects. Which actually supports your point, I think; if the kids on the field can be made responsible for the initiation of all sounds, there shouldn't be a need for someone off the field just to set the volume, the kids can do that too.

I suspect they hire a sound person to do everything else, so they figure why not let him/her produce much of the effects during the show as well. To which the obvious answer is, because it's a youth competition. If electronics are important, then it's important that the kids compete in that as well. If they're not important, then they must not be needed.

And also, any audio breaks can be fairly counted against the corps in scoring, just like any other frack. If a trumpet valve sticks during a show, that's no excuse, so why are they getting such a huge pass on electronics problems? (assuming they are - not everyone on here agrees I think) I'm liking this idea more and more.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Pete Freedman

[Pete Freedman]

But the point of the change a few seasons ago was to make the Effect sheets actually General: to not be 100% focused on one half of the effect elements. Yes, the GE 1 & GE 2 seem to be broken up by 'music expert' and 'vis expert,' however the verbiage on the sheets and the intent of the change was to give the judges more latitude to comment and rate the overall effect of both visual and music. The GE caption being split with a music expert & vis. expert is mainly to bring balance to panel

I didn't respond to this before. I think the pendulum may have swung just a bit too far in that direction. There's nothing wrong with letting GE judges comment on the whole show - that's a good idea for part of what GE seems to be. But it's a mistake to think that a music teacher with say, an MA in music education and a bunch of years teaching and evaluating music students can necessarily assess the demand of expression of dance choreography. I get that some of them have experience with visual, but not all. I suspect they know this too and put more weight in their own knowledge area, especially knowing that all three areas are represented in the pressbox. So it follows to label their titles appropriate to their background.

[cixelsyd]

I'm not sure what you mean here about music "receiving the opposite approach." I think musicians in all sections are FAR better as a whole than they were 40 years ago. The brass ensembles are MUCH better in tune, are playing far more difficult technical stuff well, etc. Percussionists are playing higher demand stuff more musically than ever before, and front ensemble percussionists are learning amazing technique and skill sets. I aged-out in 1998, and drum corps are achieving FAR more musically than they were even 15ish years ago, let alone 40!

What I meant... while visual risks are rewarded, even to the degree where some degree of imperfection is accepted as a fair tradeoff, music judging (and design/performance) has gone in the opposite direction. Risks are not tolerated, much less rewarded. If it cannot be played perfectly every time, it is removed from the design (sometimes as dictated by judge commentary).

[Pete Freedman]

What I meant... while visual risks are rewarded, even to the degree where some degree of imperfection is accepted as a fair tradeoff, music judging (and design/performance) has gone in the opposite direction. Risks are not tolerated, much less rewarded. If it cannot be played perfectly every time, it is removed from the design (sometimes as dictated by judge commentary).

It seems to me they take lots of risk musically and make lots of mistakes. Even in the top brass corps like BD and Crown, I can hear errors. Granted, usually the errors are not in the most demanding material, which they practice relentlessly, but in the easier stuff. In Crown 2014 there's a crazy finale drill sequence which is performed extremely well (on the Finals video) but then they move toward the front and slow down and there's a few bad counts where it all goes south: clearly they are all taking a breath or panting or something. This happens all the time. BD 2011 comes to mind; there's a point where the trumpets are sitting down on props during a pop tune, then they stand and do a double-tonguing bit. It's good, but it's not perfect. And that's as it should be - if it's perfect it's not hard enough.

Even so, I think you're on to something here, and here's why: It's part of a larger cultural context from outside the activity. There's a big difference between not being impressed with something and being actively annoyed with something. When a visual or dance move goes wrong, it's not impressive. It's an "Oops". But music errors grate on the soul. It's an "Ouch". So there is less tolerance for error in music. I think this leads to a culture in DCI in which musical demand is carefully crafted to exceed current skills only by a controlled amount, while viz designers can take a flyer and see what happens. People talk about solo fracks years and decades later (though tact may prevent them from writing about them on here). It's like a punch in the face, to be honest. It's ok, it's a competition, but obviously the whole horn line can't be doing that. But a whole guard can get pretty scruffy for a while and only viz people will cry ouch.

So the music judges will have less tolerance for error, but those errors happen within that range just as often I think. Although I'm a fan, not an insider.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Pete Freedman

[perc2100]

Ok, but the only electronic sound that happens there is the sound effects I mentioned, and the woman in front who is producing all the keyboard sounds. so if it's a keyboard it's a keyboard that is playing sound effects. Which actually supports your point, I think; if the kids on the field can be made responsible for the initiation of all sounds, there shouldn't be a need for someone off the field just to set the volume, the kids can do that too.

I suspect they hire a sound person to do everything else, so they figure why not let him/her produce much of the effects during the show as well. To which the obvious answer is, because it's a youth competition. If electronics are important, then it's important that the kids compete in that as well. If they're not important, then they must not be needed.

And also, any audio breaks can be fairly counted against the corps in scoring, just like any other frack. If a trumpet valve sticks during a show, that's no excuse, so why are they getting such a huge pass on electronics problems? (assuming they are - not everyone on here agrees I think) I'm liking this idea more and more.

You're joking right?! If you honestly think someone can EQ a front ensemble for an NFL stadium from the front ensemble, then you REALLY don't understand the logistics and difficulty of mic'ing & EQ'ing a front ensemble for an NFL or college stadium. If you've ever been to a concert, there's a reason for the sound person to be significantly further away from the stage/right around the center of a club/arena

[MikeN]

that's just a pit player playing an electronic keyboard. they could be triggering a myriad of sounds that it is connected to. And operating a sound console for dci is complex, but its not anything that a college level tech can't handle. And they should handle it, as it's part of the ensemble scoring.

Off topic, but those jackets... they still hurt to look at, even years later...

Mike

[MikeD]

What I meant... while visual risks are rewarded, even to the degree where some degree of imperfection is accepted as a fair tradeoff, music judging (and design/performance) has gone in the opposite direction. Risks are not tolerated, much less rewarded. If it cannot be played perfectly every time, it is removed from the design (sometimes as dictated by judge commentary).

Making changes to the show, musically and visually, is as old as drum corps itself. Things that were just not working or cleaning up have always been tweaked throughout the season. At some point you just have to decide that to clean spot X is not worth the time it might take, if you can get more band for the buck by rehearsing other areas. We used to refer to it as "bring out the garden hose" even back in my day.

[BRASSO]

it's a mistake to think that a music teacher with say, an MA in music education and a bunch of years teaching and evaluating music students can necessarily assess the demand of expression of dance choreography.

While I agree with you... DCI would disagree. They not only believe a Music Degreed person can judge this... they believe a judge with NO music or dance degree can do so. Heck, a math degree will do just fine for example as a matter of fact. You don't even have to have marched Guard, not taught Guard, to judge the Guard Caption today either. In future years, people with degrees in Engineering will be as valuable as training to judge the GE captions as those with degrees in Music and/ or Dance. Things change. And so will the training for judges that will be more fitting to judge the on field ensembles and their sound effects.

Edited October 16, 2015 by BRASSO