IllianaLancerContra Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 I hope that I'm not the person you suspected would "jump all over this idea" (since I've never said anything basically related to this subject), but I would still argue the simple question: is the group connecting with the audience at-large, or does the group happen to be marching in a show which happens to contain an audience consisting in large part of it's own fans/followers? And further...is DCI to now employ an added member of it's judging panel...a sound/decibel meter? No, not you - that person has not risen to the bait.... but there should (IMHO) be a way to reward Corps that generate great crowd response Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) No, not you - that person has not risen to the bait.... but there should (IMHO) be a way to reward Corps that generate great crowd response Some might argue that a wild and prolonged (positive, that is) crowd response is considered to be by many marchers the perfect reward...and more meaningful than any tenths of a point they might derive on their final score. Scores are forgotten over time...but an overwhelmingly positive roar of the crowd to your efforts and performance lives in the mind and heart forever. (Said at the risk of sounding like Sally Field's "You LIKE me...you really, really LIKE me!!!) Edited September 27, 2015 by HornTeacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I dont think it would really make any difference ( unless a corps is a real hot mess ) when considering a drop there's much more to that process than it used to be BITD. We also at one time were not able to retrieve our own equipment so it was pretty obvious. Most often today, unless right in your face, many drops are not seen or at least not seen by the same given person. Today it is more about the recovery than the tic so to speak. Of course there are exceptions where not only was there a drop but recovery was awful, there was disruption to everything around the person etc etc. At this point you can bet there were deductions and not just for the drop. It's there, what you are asking, just not in the same manner that it was at one time. Again going back to judged sports, if a skater misses a jump, the highest possible score is lowered and there is a deduction, so it hurts twice. The same held true in the TIC days. Dropped equipment was both a tic and a penalty. I can see in your points that whether or not it is seen could pose problems, and I can think of a very famous show that people critiqued dropped equipment and the dropped equipment was deliberate and was actually part of the show. For me, an automatic deduction sets the standard a bit higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Again going back to judged sports, if a skater misses a jump, the highest possible score is lowered and there is a deduction, so it hurts twice. The same held true in the TIC days. Dropped equipment was both a tic and a penalty. I can see in your points that whether or not it is seen could pose problems, and I can think of a very famous show that people critiqued dropped equipment and the dropped equipment was deliberate and was actually part of the show. For me, an automatic deduction sets the standard a bit higher. I used to feel that way years ago BUT see the importance of the whole picture today ..IMO Also, I think as we go on you will see less and less of the importance of many things or at least how it affects the bigger picture. Remember BITD we also came off military terms as well as penalty crazy. Drum corps is not based in the military mind set anymore but more in the production and theatrics mind set. Now that can be debated if they like that or not but even in skating as you said( which is not us ) yes deductions still happen but look how far it came from the compulsory days. It was way more about technical than it was about artistry as it is today. Edited September 28, 2015 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lastknight Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 You're *grossly* overestimating the costs associated with electronics and amplification. It's far less than many people think it is. ...and drops every 6 mos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I wasn't advocating the "jumping back and forth between sheets," Jeff. However, neither am I about to belabor the point I was trying to make. Read the very first sentence in my post, please -- with emphasis on "Sounds to me like some sort of advocation of.... ." I read the entire post thank you very little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 i truly feel at this point in time, DCI really doesn't need to change anything. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Electronics failures do impact the scores. Until you can demonstrate with evidence that it in some way "not enough", I'm not sure that there's a real point to your suggestion. Ask the Bluecoats in San Antonio if electronics failures impact score... Exactly. Bluecoats went into San Antonio just 2.05 behind the leaders (Cadets), and without their electronic effects they could only manage a 2.00 gap from those same first-place Cadets. Wait - that is 0.05 better. So what was your point? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I get what you are saying, but this is not just a playing performance activity. It is also a viewing activity. If you want audiences to be more than former marching members and families of marching members, the general show concept has to be equally important. If by "general show concept", you mean that a show must have a single unifying theme, then I would disagree. Along those lines, I disagree with your next sentence: Despite what many think, I believe the diversity of the types of shows we now see and have begun seeing in the last six or so years is what is refueling the health of the activity. I think the apparent unwritten requirement for shows to have single unifying themes is limiting diversity. Within each show, the theme limits what music can be selected. Corps used to be able to select several totally unrelated musical works, demonstrate their ability to master different styles, and offer something for everyone. Among the universe of shows, we now see the same tired old themes over and over again. Just this year, we had a prominent DCI corps do a "film noir" show, claiming in their news releases that no one had ever done such a thing before, as if Spirit 2011 or Blue Devils B 2014 never existed. Diversity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I have no concrete proof, only observation from afar, but I absolutely think electronics do get a free pass. Vanguard's scores increased all three nights of Finals week, too, despite having the electronics come unplugged on one of them. I don't think it needs a rule change, though - just maybe a clearer application / explanation on the judging sheets. I would settle for an explanation from someone in the DCI judging hierarchy as to how, and in which captions they are/are not assessed. Just tell us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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