perc2100 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I didn't say anything about DVD impact, but otherwise I should have been more clear. So I will be: It's not effective. When I hear a prerecorded voice used in drum corps, and particular a non-member's voice, my first thought is, "That would be more effective if it were (1) a member and (2) live". The fact that such recordings also are at risk of not appearing on the CD or DVD is incidental to my primary concern. If YOU don't like it, it's not effective. Gotcha. I think, like literally every other design choice in the history of drum corps, sampling is hit or miss: sometimes it's awesome, sometimes it's flat. I've heard live member performances that was so amateurish I wish the corps would've sampled it from someone who was better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Why? If it is legal and effective it should be rewarded. The idea that it might impact a DVD should have no bearing on what a judge evaluates in a live setting. Yeah, if the corps directors think rights issues are more important than show design ideas, then let the BoD pass rules limiting what designers can or cannot use. Otherwise, why would a judge care at all what design elements may or may not clear copyright clearance?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumcat Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) I've had this discussion to some degree with a lot of people. I need to say first that the DCI office & DA are in a tough spot here. The reason is that most everyone watched the frog boil. Besides the money that the discs bring in, they may also be the single greatest source of public relations available to perspective members. It's a big deal! With that said, I think there's probably going to be enough on the discs to be fine for that in 2015. I think you're seeing the "most favored nation" clauses at work for the Semifinalists, being straight up unreasonable for that cost. From my exposed-but-not-an-expert view, this has been something that was just not addressed due to the G7 stuff. I know, I know, seems unrelated. I'd make the case that the Big Boys needed to be acquiesced to, and in large part this happened through rule changes and open creative "license", pardon the pun. They spoke up for one another and said that creativity was a key to the activity, and restricting them was tantamount to drum corps treason. Everyone swallowed and hoped the licensing stuff wouldn't get any worse. And while the big corps might be able to handle the bill, the "freedom" applied to groups that certainly don't move enough units to make sense. Whoops. In my less-than-educated opinion, there needs to be a change to "play the game". Unfortunately, the onus of responsibility would need to shift to the individual corps, and that's NEVER good. The thing is that the rights acquisitions often required more than a year to complete. Given the annual cycle of drum corps, this causes all sorts of problems. Add to it the allowance of recordings that are copyrighted to be played back during a performance, and risk is heavy. With a cluster of a situation for media behind them, going forward would be a pretty simple thing for me: - All music must be pre-cleared in all ways prior to a corps first annual judged performance. The lack of ANY piece of music or recording would result in exhibition status for the group - NO EXCEPTIONS. - All licensed music must not increase fees via MFN. - All pre-recorded sampling must have a performance free license and receipt of purchase available, or have been conducted by a current performer. - No exhibition corps may appear on recorded products, and any corps in exhibition at championships cannot advance, though World/Open status shall not be impacted. The main problem today is that corps have NO INCENTIVE to choose music that might bump cost or provide later risk of revoked licensing to the collective. It's not great, and it's not a good pill to swallow at this late date, but that's the world we live in. Nothing would make me happier than to see a law passed that exempted marching organizations the same way Fan Duel and Draft Kings get gambling exemptions. I'm not here to argue the ethics of whether it's good to restrict creativity - maybe it's a boon to do it this way. It just doesn't seem like it on its face. So assuming that everyone would benefit by making all their content available again in various modern outlets, those 4 rule changes are the only way forward in my opinion. Happy holidays, all. Edited December 14, 2015 by drumcat 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 the genie is out of the box. anything you suggest to limit designers, even penalties for not being cleared before the first show will create howls of "unfair" But then I know if i were designing, and i wanted a certain tune, #### it all to hell, i'm having that tune if it brings my inspration to life, dvd sales be ######. outside of copyright law being changed, or tresona artists going after the company themselves, there is no win-win situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 The main problem today is that corps have NO INCENTIVE to choose music that might bump cost or provide later risk of revoked licensing to the collective. It's not great, and it's not a good pill to swallow at this late date, but that's the world we live in. Nothing would make me happier than to see a law passed that exempted marching organizations the same way Fan Duel and Draft Kings get gambling exemptions. Those two companies tried to make a case that what they sold was not gambling, but a game of skill, so they were not really granted an exemption. Once a state determines that what they provide IS gambling...oops...see the recent New York decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peel Paint Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 With a cluster of a situation for media behind them, going forward would be a pretty simple thing for me: - All music must be pre-cleared in all ways prior to a corps first annual judged performance. The lack of ANY piece of music or recording would result in exhibition status for the group - NO EXCEPTIONS. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that the issue with Madison/Empire State of Mind several years back was that they they had provisional sync rights which then got yanked away like a magician's tablecloth when a big commercial account that wanted an exclusive deal came along. Will sync rights often be provisional in the contract for a drum corps, otherwise, no deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I was hoping to order the DVD of Open class finals.... grumble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) If YOU don't like it, it's not effective. Gotcha. I think, like literally every other design choice in the history of drum corps, sampling is hit or miss: sometimes it's awesome, sometimes it's flat. I've heard live member performances that was so amateurish I wish the corps would've sampled it from someone who was better. Right. It's not effective to me. And if a judge likes it, it's effective to her or him. I'd rather have a soloist frack live, like BD in 1989, than have the corps opt instead to use a prerecorded horn. The same thing, for me, applies to the human voice. Edited December 14, 2015 by N.E. Brigand 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) the genie is out of the box. anything you suggest to limit designers, even penalties for not being cleared before the first show will create howls of "unfair" But then I know if i were designing, and i wanted a certain tune, #### it all to hell, i'm having that tune if it brings my inspration to life, dvd sales be ######. outside of copyright law being changed, or tresona artists going after the company themselves, there is no win-win situation. And if a designer really wants to use 200 members, or write a show that's 20 minutes long? And there are other things have been prohibited by DCI after being used. So if DCI decides that they're going to lose too much money and visibility by not being able to have lots of online video of their shows, then that would be a good reason to tell the designers to go to ####. Edited December 14, 2015 by N.E. Brigand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that the issue with Madison/Empire State of Mind several years back was that they they had provisional sync rights which then got yanked away like a magician's tablecloth when a big commercial account that wanted an exclusive deal came along. Will sync rights often be provisional in the contract for a drum corps, otherwise, no deal? I don't think so. As I understand it, DCI/Madison was never told "yes" about sync rights for "Empire State of Mind". They were told, "No, but we'll keep asking the rights holders and maybe they'll change their mind in time for your video release". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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