Have we seen the last of high-speed "kaleidoscopic" drill in D

[ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar]

Yeah, all stuff that's not difficult or demanding.

When ever I read DCPers or /r/drumcorps kids questioning "demand," I'm reminded of this ...

http://www.theonion.com/article/defense-needs-to-be-more-physical-reports-man-slum-34922

EDIT: moving on from the subject of "demand," I think it's fair to question the effectiveness of a lot of the current trends.

Crown hit the sweet spot in 2013 ... balancing staging, high velocity drill, and individual performer movement. 2014, however, was a relative mess. This year was much better, but the individual movement still could've been dialed back without taking anything away from the show.

To answer the OP: after Madison's "throwback" show last year, I think there's still a place for kaleidoscopic moves/exposed forms/high velocity/etc. That being said, musical staging and guard staging should always come first.

Edited February 17, 2016 by ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar

[cowtown]

Second tier because it’s the uniform marching /playing that I enjoy. It’s more impressive to me.

A snare solo bores me, a line playing that same solo well impresses me…the degree of difficulty between the 2 is huge, playing together in unison is simulations demand which, is now being taken for granted . 20 horn players playing 20 different things at the same time....that's what this visual style strikes me as, ekks

As a 'Guardguy', are you impressed by a snare line dancing, Taken on its own, not excusing that it’s snare drummers ? I’m not. It’s a noticeable drop in quality compared to a real dancer. it’s a simple dance poorly executed and why shouldn’t it be, they are a snares drummers after all. But as a fan, why do I have to accept this lessor quality as being better? Not to mention how watered down drum parts are now compared to the days of yore, this simultaneous demand comes at a price and it’s the writing of the drum book that's paying it. So I'm get poorly dancing drumlines playing wimpy parts, awesome, give them 100 points, who really wins here?

To be clear, I don’t object to this style existing as long as there are other styles what I object to is this style being reinforced by the way it’s rewarded, a de-facto compulsory that's killing off the types of shows I do enjoy, as asked in the OP, is kaleidoscopic drill disappearing from DCI?

This individual style seems really made for DVD’s and now that those are missing, perhaps we’ll move on to the next thing…back to a show designed for 1 viewing from 70 rows up, where this style falls completely flat

[MikeN]

if your team shows me the same demand over and over, and another team shows me 20 demands...who wins?

Not arguing, just looking for an explanation - what kinds of demands equal "simultaneous demand?" Are we talking dancing and playing? Posing and playing? What makes that superior to marching and playing?

Mike

[garfield]

Not arguing, just looking for an explanation - what kinds of demands equal "simultaneous demand?" Are we talking dancing and playing? Posing and playing? What makes that superior to marching and playing?

Mike

I've always thought playing triplets with one hand and 16th notes with the other while simultaneously marching a 7/8 meter was demanding enough. But today you have to pick you nose, dance on one foot, twirl, emote, reach for the stars, show your softer side, and grit your teeth as if you're splitting hickory with a butter knife.

And if the competition does all of that and plays flams on their triplets in addition - even crappy flams! - well, what you've got there is some Box-5 stuff, eh?!

[N.E. Brigand]

This individual style seems really made for DVDs

Which is weird, because the judges don't watch the shows on a screen.

[GUARDLING]

Second tier because it’s the uniform marching /playing that I enjoy. It’s more impressive to me.

A snare solo bores me, a line playing that same solo well impresses me…the degree of difficulty between the 2 is huge, playing together in unison is simulations demand which, is now being taken for granted . 20 horn players playing 20 different things at the same time....that's what this visual style strikes me as, ekks

As a 'Guardguy', are you impressed by a snare line dancing, Taken on its own, not excusing that it’s snare drummers ? I’m not. It’s a noticeable drop in quality compared to a real dancer. it’s a simple dance poorly executed and why shouldn’t it be, they are a snares drummers after all. But as a fan, why do I have to accept this lessor quality as being better? Not to mention how watered down drum parts are now compared to the days of yore, this simultaneous demand comes at a price and it’s the writing of the drum book that's paying it. So I'm get poorly dancing drumlines playing wimpy parts, awesome, give them 100 points, who really wins here?

To be clear, I don’t object to this style existing as long as there are other styles what I object to is this style being reinforced by the way it’s rewarded, a de-facto compulsory that's killing off the types of shows I do enjoy, as asked in the OP, is kaleidoscopic drill disappearing from DCI?

This individual style seems really made for DVD’s and now that those are missing, perhaps we’ll move on to the next thing…back to a show designed for 1 viewing from 70 rows up, where this style falls completely flat

Hey , I do get what you are saying and I myself in the guard world back in the day said the same with bad acting ( and still do ) as well as bad dancing.

Phrased the way you 1st line is is totally cool also by adding that something is verses more impressive to you. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes and are very much entitled to them.

To answer you question though. YES I am impressed when a hornline ( which is where i started many years ago ) or a drum line who layers alot does impress me more BUT only when done well.

I will stand very firm on the fact that it is far from easy to present multi facets. You have to actually try to do this to know how difficult it is not just for the design team the techs as well as the members. This doesn not say the opposite isnt hard either, just in a different way.

Edited February 17, 2016 by GUARDLING

[garfield]

Second tier because it’s the uniform marching /playing that I enjoy. It’s more impressive to me.

A snare solo bores me, a line playing that same solo well impresses me…the degree of difficulty between the 2 is huge, playing together in unison is simulations demand which, is now being taken for granted . 20 horn players playing 20 different things at the same time....that's what this visual style strikes me as, ekks

As a 'Guardguy', are you impressed by a snare line dancing, Taken on its own, not excusing that it’s snare drummers ? I’m not. It’s a noticeable drop in quality compared to a real dancer. it’s a simple dance poorly executed and why shouldn’t it be, they are a snares drummers after all. But as a fan, why do I have to accept this lessor quality as being better? Not to mention how watered down drum parts are now compared to the days of yore, this simultaneous demand comes at a price and it’s the writing of the drum book that's paying it. So I'm get poorly dancing drumlines playing wimpy parts, awesome, give them 100 points, who really wins here?

To be clear, I don’t object to this style existing as long as there are other styles what I object to is this style being reinforced by the way it’s rewarded, a de-facto compulsory that's killing off the types of shows I do enjoy, as asked in the OP, is kaleidoscopic drill disappearing from DCI?

This individual style seems really made for DVD’s and now that those are missing, perhaps we’ll move on to the next thing…back to a show designed for 1 viewing from 70 rows up, where this style falls completely flat

Oh, so much here... cheesy, gooey, needing pulled like taffy.

Second tier through your lenses, first tier through another's. What's the difference, really?

We can debate all the other points, but on these two you are completely and absolutely wrong:

Watch THIS

...then look me in the eye and tell me it bored you. If you say that it does I will better understand your position (and think you've lost your mind).

Second, "watered down drum books"? Only in the context of what might be if they weren't wasting time dancing.

Dancing drumlines is for sissies and we both know it, but the wizards of smart say they should do that stuff while playing hard stuff, too. It could be worse, you know. When was the last time you saw a fat drumline? Even the bass drums today are lean and mean, and big.

I hate the simultaneous demand crap and wonder what we might get if they weren't wasting time and energy dancing, as you say. But "watered down" from what we don't know is still heads and heads above whatever we've experienced so far in drumline performance.

Maybe you didn't mean to imply otherwise, and we likely agree more than not.

But imagine 10 Brandons. OMG.

Edited February 18, 2016 by garfield

[garfield]

<snip>

To be clear, I don’t object to this style existing as long as there are other styles what I object to is this style being reinforced by the way it’s rewarded, a de-facto compulsory that's killing off the types of shows I do enjoy, as asked in the OP, is kaleidoscopic drill disappearing from DCI?

<snip>

"...the types of shows I do enjoy..."?

You mean BD,...

...Before-Dancing?

[garfield]

Or do you mean 8to5 paradiddles in 4/4 time and block band with cool cadence retreats?

[garfield]

This individual style seems really made for DVD’s and now that those are missing, perhaps we’ll move on to the next thing…back to a show designed for 1 viewing from 70 rows up, where this style falls completely flat

Your claim is subjective even as I admit that it's better to understand the source material today, although by no means required, to enjoy today's productions. I'm probably too close to judge why someone wouldn't get a single viewing from 70 rows up.

But your claim also misses the business aspect as well. Which is a better business plan: to completely fulfill in one viewing, or to fulfill in one, but only completely fulfill after several, viewings?